Trevor Lawrence and the Jags - Year 4 (T-Law is what he is)

[Jakuvious]

 

 

[LinderFournette]

5 hours ago, iknowcool said:

I still think Lawrence is going to be a very good, if not great, QB.  It is disappointing he didn't take that next step this year, but I was so unimpressed by their style of offense all season and felt it didn't allow their playmakers to shine.  It was bland, no creativity.  Even if we accept that Lawrence is a middle-of-the-road QB, their numbers should have been better than they were.  And he's only 24-years old.  There is plenty of time for improvement.  Hopefully he can stay healthy next year and Pederson/Taylor get more creative in their approach.  

I'm pretty sure the Issue with our offense lies with Taylor and his bad play calling 

[LinderFournette]

4 hours ago, MagicMT said:

Soooo Allen Hurns, Marquise Lee, Keenan Cole, Mercedes Lewis, Arrelious Benn are all better than Kirk, Ridley and Engram? I don't dispute they had a great defense but to say that those WR/TE were better than anything Lawrence has had is blatantly false. 
I'm not saying there's no more hope with Lawrence, he could still turn into a top 6-7 QB but at some point the excuses has to stop and blaming the worst coaching job of all time (only his 1st year, not the last two) and having bad weapons (really, Kirk/Ridley/Engram are bums? lol) or injuries can only go so far. He has to play better to be considered a good QB, can't surf on his prospect hype no more. 

I think tugboat underated the skill guys. 

Kirk Ridley and engram are starters(in this day and age ill go within the top 3 wr spots) at the very least on the average NFL team.  

Hell engram moved in on some records. 114 catches in 1 season which is 2nd in Franchise history behind the underated Jimmy Smith.  

 

 

[Tank4Drake]

8 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

Oh really.  Do u recall kitchens actually kicking his kicker, or not going back on a team flight

How about you take emotions and maturity out of it? Analyzing offensive schemes, Kitchens had zero, zero, zero clue what he was doing at any point. 

[Forge]

36 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

I'm pretty sure the Issue with our offense lies with Taylor and his bad play calling 

I very much agree with this.  I didn't watch the jags all the time or anything, but it was tough to watch when i did offensively 

[4thandInches]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

 

 

Big yikes

[LinderFournette]

3 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

How about you take emotions and maturity out of it? Analyzing offensive schemes, Kitchens had zero, zero, zero clue what he was doing at any point. 

And who's to say the jags coaching staff had a brain cell that year. 

[Tugboat]

9 hours ago, MagicMT said:

Soooo Allen Hurns, Marquise Lee, Keenan Cole, Mercedes Lewis, Arrelious Benn are all better than Kirk, Ridley and Engram? I don't dispute they had a great defense but to say that those WR/TE were better than anything Lawrence has had is blatantly false. 
I'm not saying there's no more hope with Lawrence, he could still turn into a top 6-7 QB but at some point the excuses has to stop and blaming the worst coaching job of all time (only his 1st year, not the last two) and having bad weapons (really, Kirk/Ridley/Engram are bums? lol) or injuries can only go so far. He has to play better to be considered a good QB, can't surf on his prospect hype no more. 

At that brief moment of time when Quise wasn't injured and could run those crossers he excelled at, Hurns was balling, Keenan Cole was randomly an absolute stud?  Yes.  Absolutely.  I take that receiving corps at that moment in time over today's Jags in an instant without blinking.

The only thing better about today, is Engram over ancient Marcedes Lewis...but even then, he was still just automatic catches because he was a lot better than his QBs ever let him be.

 

The bigger factor was still that the OLine was actually pretty okay and Lenny was actually briefly living up to his billing (as he did again elsewhere and got a ring).  But the overwhelming factor was that Bortle didn't ever have to do much.  That defense was truly as good a unit as i've ever seen in the modern era.  It was unreal.  That's all part of supporting cast.

[Tugboat]

4 hours ago, Forge said:

I very much agree with this.  I didn't watch the jags all the time or anything, but it was tough to watch when i did offensively 

This is where i'm not really sure.

 

I feel like it's very easy for the "weapons" and "playcalling" to get tangled up and conflated.  It wasn't good, but i still think it's more a reflection of an OC trying to bend playcalling to the few things the "talent" actually do well.  Which kind of ignored what Lawrence does best.

 

It's like...the opposite of how the Patriots built the Patriots around Brady.  He had multiple OCs and it all looked mostly the same under each with a few little wrinkles.  They always had those same elements and staples that catered to what made Brady the GOAT.  You've always got these great TEs and slot receivers who aren't spectacularly athletic but do most of the heaving lifting.  With the Jaguars, it doesn't feel like they've latched onto and built the receiving corps around what he does best.  They just went out and got a bunch of fast guys, when that's clearly not really what Lawrence thrives with.

 

I'd ******* kill for them to somehow go out and get a Courtland Sutton type guy, if Denver implodes.  As much as it took forever for Russ to even figure that out because he likes a completely opposite type of receiver...Sutton would honestly have a shot at leading the league in receiving yards with Lawrence.  That's what Lawrence's strength is.  Put the ball where only a big target with a big catch radius can get it.

 

He can throw those freeballs heaved downfield to a wide open receiver too...but the most frustrating thing watching the Jaguars, is that the entire group of wide receivers run just absolutely garbage routes with zero feel for space or timing and they all suck at actually catching the football.

[HTTRDynasty]

Yikes 

 

[Soggust]

11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yikes 

 

lol I watched this and got a completely different vibe than Travis D. Holmes here

This sounds like a reporter asking a bait-y question and a HC reiterating numerous times that his QB was capable of everything given to him and even provided valuable feedback. Feels like a reach on the balance comment when that was obviously just DP taking accountability for having to manage / call a game correctly.

Edited January 9 by Soggust

[Tugboat]

13 hours ago, Soggust said:

I don't mean this snarkily in any way whatsoever, but by most, I think?

Floor wise, Trevor's 2021 is clearly worst season between both.
Ceiling wise, Herberts 2020 + 2021 (and can make arguments for 22 + 23) are better than Trevor's 2022.

For an average, even if we take away Trevor's 21 and only compare last two years (which is really unfair to Herbert), he still has better stats over the last two years than Trevor. 

Even if you look at PFF over last two years Herbert beats Trevor. 

I understand there are a lot of other contextual factors that come into play, but purely statistically, I'm not sure I see a stretch where Trevor outperformed Herbert apart from the second half of 2022, specifically.

 

 

That's fair.  Ultimately, people have wild expectations for a QB of that caliber.  The statistical case can't be made that Lawrence > Herbert.  It's not like it's that far off, but it's fair to say it doesn't align.

 

But to put them in completely different tiers, is another thing entirely.

 

I guess i'm just a Lawrence apologist, sitting here waiting for the Owl.  Maybe it's trauma, maybe it's something else.  But i still firmly believe that Lawrence is a QB who is capable of bringing home a Superbowl at some point.

 

Honestly, it'd be ******* awesome if this allowed them to somehow extend him at a lower than "highest paid QB ever" price somehow.  But he's The Guy.  He's special, regardless of what the numbers or the naysayers say.

[Tugboat]

On 1/8/2024 at 1:59 PM, LinderFournette said:

I think tugboat underated the skill guys. 

Kirk Ridley and engram are starters(in this day and age ill go within the top 3 wr spots) at the very least on the average NFL team.  

Hell engram moved in on some records. 114 catches in 1 season which is 2nd in Franchise history behind the underated Jimmy Smith.  

 

 

 

The way i see it...like i said, Engram is the only actually good weapon Lawrence has.  There's a reason he loves throwing to him so much and throwing to the other overpaid munchkins is such a struggle for consistency.  Even Zay Jones is a guy Trevor loves to throw it to...even though he's not actually anything special.  I think Engram making headway on some franchise records should tell you all you need to know about what's wrong here.

 

It's all about fitting the personnel to the quarterback.  Lawrence clearly thrives with big, physical, large catch radius targets.  But instead, he's got a pair of soft little smurfs with bad hands as his primary targets taking up a huge amount of cap space.

 

Kirk is a WR3 on a good team.  He's good at one specific thing and that's about it.  Ridley is ******* useless and doesn't have any place on a good team.  There's a reason the Falcons let him walk for nothing and it's not just his gambling stuff.

 

ETN is also a good target, but that's really just as a checkdown and space plays sort of thing.

 

It's just not a roster built to suit what Lawrence does best.  Which is what smart organizations do to support their Franchise QBs.

[Jakuvious]

I feel like the overall opinion of Lawrence is going to aggressively overcorrect this offseason, and he'll now become underrated until he bounces back next year. Feels like it's going to be like Dak's INTs last year. Everyone kind of panicked about it, and it was pretty much fine with a closer look of what was going on.

Now, Lawrence has underwhelmed a bit. He was penciled in as the next guy to take the Mahomes/Allen/Burrow level leap, and that clearly didn't happen and doesn't look like it will. But he's still a very good QB, and more than fine.

Team as a whole needs to invest more in OL and the D. I kind of think the weapons are fine. Some weird near misses all over the place, but I think the talent is there. Don't really think Pederson is the problem either.

[ukjets21]

2 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

I feel like the overall opinion of Lawrence is going to aggressively overcorrect this offseason, and he'll now become underrated until he bounces back next year. Feels like it's going to be like Dak's INTs last year. Everyone kind of panicked about it, and it was pretty much fine with a closer look of what was going on.

Now, Lawrence has underwhelmed a bit. He was penciled in as the next guy to take the Mahomes/Allen/Burrow level leap, and that clearly didn't happen and doesn't look like it will. But he's still a very good QB, and more than fine.

Team as a whole needs to invest more in OL and the D. I kind of think the weapons are fine. Some weird near misses all over the place, but I think the talent is there. Don't really think Pederson is the problem either.

This is possible but I think it will just end up being highly polarised, with some (like above) trying to argue he's an upper echelon QB and others arguing he's around average. For what it's worth I think he's not made the leaps you'd expect and really lacks behind the second level and probably even the next group of Herbert, Purdy, Stafford, Dak etc. He's going to be the Jags QB for a long time and should be good for them.