Antonio Pierce named HC

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Offense averaged 15.75 ppg in the first 8 games. 

Averaging 23.17 ppg currently. If not for the anomaly against the Chargers, the average drops to 15.20, right in line with the first half of the season average. 

So you’re taking out the highest scoring game average under AP to match it up with all of JMD averages to make your point sound better? 
 

Yea it doesn’t work that way like @Darbsk said

 

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Averages don’t work like that sorry. The average is the average. What would it be if you took out the 0?

Agree with seeing what the average is after the next couple games against good defences. 

 

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

So you’re taking out the highest scoring game average under AP to match it up with all of JMD averages to make your point sound better? 
 

Yea it doesn’t work that way like @Darbsk said

 

 Context is important and the Chargers game was obviously a major outlier. The offense has been god awful under AP.

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I respect AP. He's filling his role. Because I don't think he's qualified for the job, doesn't mean I hate him.

All I want to see is a thorough HC/GM search after the season and AP should get his say in an interview. I get the impression some of you would be totally fine handing him the job and that is where I take issue. 

 I'm confident that unlike last time where Mark fixated on one guy, he has people around him and rumored to want to hire an executive role:

If that collection of people come together and interview several candidates, I don't believe AP will be on top of any list, because I think there are far more qualified people for this job.  

Word twisting at its finest. 

Literally nobody has ever said hand AP the job or anything even close to it. 

Saying he's the best current candidate for the job isn't the same as saying hand him the job. Everyone, save maybe 1 or 2 people, has already gone on record saying Harbaugh would obviously be number 1....if he's even interested. I think 1 person total has tried to argue AP's merits over a Ben Johnson or Frank Smith and he got laughed out of the thread. 

But neither Johnson nor Smith, much less Harbaugh, have given any indication that they want anything to do with the Raiders at this point. AP has, for the obvious reasons. Regardless, that still doesn't equate to "handing him the job". 

[ronjon1990]

4 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

So you’re taking out the highest scoring game average under AP to match it up with all of JMD averages to make your point sound better? 
 

Yea it doesn’t work that way like @Darbsk said

 

It literally hurts him that a "failed high school coach, failed college coach, unheralded lb coach on nobody's radar prior to November 2023, acting as an interim coach for a relatively bad team not beating the best teams in the league" has gotten equal or better results than the dude he spent 18 months defending to absurd levels at every turn. 

Homebody championed 3 years....and still weirdly champions that he'd demand 3 years for the next guy.....despite going full mutiny on the last guy before year 2 even concluded. He has no actual position, he just spouts nonsense and tries to promote his watered down jello consistency as "logic". 

[NYRaider]

23 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

It literally hurts him that a "failed high school coach, failed college coach, unheralded lb coach on nobody's radar prior to November 2023, acting as an interim coach for a relatively bad team not beating the best teams in the league" has gotten equal or better results than the dude he spent 18 months defending to absurd levels at every turn. 

Homebody championed 3 years....and still weirdly champions that he'd demand 3 years for the next guy.....despite going full mutiny on the last guy before year 2 even concluded. He has no actual position, he just spouts nonsense and tries to promote his watered down jello consistency as "logic". 

Chargers interim coach is going toe to toe with the Bills rn. We should hire him.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Chargers interim coach is going toe to toe with the Bills rn. We should hire him.

And that has what to do with what? Are you capable of staying on one subject?

[Styrian Raider]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

And that has what to do with what? Are you capable of staying on one subject?

Deflection.

The narrative always was that our 63 points we put on the board against a team lead by Easton Stick ist worth nothing.

Now that a good team had a close game against them, He is scared that someone could bring that Up, so he immediately starts to create a New narrative.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Styrian Raider said:

Deflection.

The narrative always was that our 63 points we put on the board against a team lead by Easton Stick ist worth nothing.

Now that a good team had a close game against them, He is scared that someone could bring that Up, so he immediately starts to create a New narrative.

The Chargers and Vikings games are going to be contentious for the remainder of the year, I think. 

Minnesota is a good team without a QB. O'Connell has done a phenomenal job up there, considering the circumstances. We looked flat as we possibly could, but we were playing an opponent who still has a shot at the playoffs. Minnesota with a real QB probably has 11 or even 12 wins right now. 

After that game, we adjusted. To what degree and is it something we can build with? Who knows. 

But we showed a lot more against the Chargers than I think we showed against Minnesota. 

Now, the Chargers game comes with its own set of caveats, for sure. We didn't play Herbert, we played Easton Stick. I also believe that Staley was a dead man walking coming into the game and I think the players knew that and didn't play particularly hard for a guy they knew wasn't it. 

Putting up 60+ was fun, but we won't be doing it often. That said, even if we cut it in half and put up 30+, that's still plenty good. I think a lot of people are being overly harsh about the Minnesota game, considering the circumstances. Equally, I think those same people are looking at 60+ as a rare occurrence and discounting the entire result as a 1-off circumstance. That's a flawed approach, in my opinion.  Nobody on the face of this earth thinks what we saw against the Chargers is what we'll see weekly. But again, even 50% of that outcome is really really good. Hell, 1/3 of that outcome puts us around league average.

They're trying to over-correct a position that nobody is trying to take though. The Chargers game only serves to show that AP clearly isn't as in over his head as the Minnesota game led people to believe. More importantly, nobody is pointing at the Chargers game on its own and saying that is the reason AP should be strongly considered. People are looking at the entire body of work and understanding that he's a first time HC thrust into a bad spot with a novice playcaller and unheralded rookie QB. The naysayers just want to point to Minnesota- despite the context- and call Los Angeles a 1-off- despite the context- and leave it at that. 

I'll be the first to say, I was highly critical of the Minnesota game. Bo's inexperience was apparent, even if he's hamstrung by a partial playbook. AP has a ways to go in clock management and game flow, running a real play before halftime was dumb as can be, and having guys doing calisthenics instead of taking the time at half to make sure adjustments were made was amateur. Those things likely cost us the game. 

That said, they were things we had not seen AP do much of before, if at all. He didn't try them again against the Chargers. So, clearly, he's learning- and doing so on the fly. Contrast that with McDaniels who was so set in his losing ways that it has become a meme. 

Now, before NY pops in here with his usual nonsense, there are some things I want to see from AP going forward- and given how much time is left, I don't think he will and it will remain a concern as a result. Primarily, I get the occasion, beating a rival into the ground in near-historic fashion is cause for celebration any time. But AP needs to realize he's not "one of the boys". The cigar celebrations when we win....those gotta stop. It's juvenile when we're not actually winning anything of note. He needs to realize it's time to tell our guys to cut that crap out and act like we've been here before (even if we really haven't). We need to learn how to win with the expectation that we'll do so. Not every single win calls for a parade or celebration. I know if I were conducting the interview, one of my first questions would be about how he handles success on and off the field. Does he want to be the teacher or the cool substitute?

So he's not a perfect candidate by any means. But the real issues aren't what people are bringing up, at least not explicitly so. They're just bagging on him for non-issue and irrelevant reasons or setting entirely unrealistic and unreasonable expectations for the remainder of this year, ignoring that the context of the season makes those expectations damn near impossible. 

[Darbsk]

8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

 

 Context is important and the Chargers game was obviously a major outlier. The offense has been god awful under AP.

Again, that’s not how averages work. 😁😁

[Darbsk]

49 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

The Chargers and Vikings games are going to be contentious for the remainder of the year, I think. 

Minnesota is a good team without a QB. O'Connell has done a phenomenal job up there, considering the circumstances. We looked flat as we possibly could, but we were playing an opponent who still has a shot at the playoffs. Minnesota with a real QB probably has 11 or even 12 wins right now. 

After that game, we adjusted. To what degree and is it something we can build with? Who knows. 

But we showed a lot more against the Chargers than I think we showed against Minnesota. 

Now, the Chargers game comes with its own set of caveats, for sure. We didn't play Herbert, we played Easton Stick. I also believe that Staley was a dead man walking coming into the game and I think the players knew that and didn't play particularly hard for a guy they knew wasn't it. 

Putting up 60+ was fun, but we won't be doing it often. That said, even if we cut it in half and put up 30+, that's still plenty good. I think a lot of people are being overly harsh about the Minnesota game, considering the circumstances. Equally, I think those same people are looking at 60+ as a rare occurrence and discounting the entire result as a 1-off circumstance. That's a flawed approach, in my opinion.  Nobody on the face of this earth thinks what we saw against the Chargers is what we'll see weekly. But again, even 50% of that outcome is really really good. Hell, 1/3 of that outcome puts us around league average.

They're trying to over-correct a position that nobody is trying to take though. The Chargers game only serves to show that AP clearly isn't as in over his head as the Minnesota game led people to believe. More importantly, nobody is pointing at the Chargers game on its own and saying that is the reason AP should be strongly considered. People are looking at the entire body of work and understanding that he's a first time HC thrust into a bad spot with a novice playcaller and unheralded rookie QB. The naysayers just want to point to Minnesota- despite the context- and call Los Angeles a 1-off- despite the context- and leave it at that. 

I'll be the first to say, I was highly critical of the Minnesota game. Bo's inexperience was apparent, even if he's hamstrung by a partial playbook. AP has a ways to go in clock management and game flow, running a real play before halftime was dumb as can be, and having guys doing calisthenics instead of taking the time at half to make sure adjustments were made was amateur. Those things likely cost us the game. 

That said, they were things we had not seen AP do much of before, if at all. He didn't try them again against the Chargers. So, clearly, he's learning- and doing so on the fly. Contrast that with McDaniels who was so set in his losing ways that it has become a meme. 

Now, before NY pops in here with his usual nonsense, there are some things I want to see from AP going forward- and given how much time is left, I don't think he will and it will remain a concern as a result. Primarily, I get the occasion, beating a rival into the ground in near-historic fashion is cause for celebration any time. But AP needs to realize he's not "one of the boys". The cigar celebrations when we win....those gotta stop. It's juvenile when we're not actually winning anything of note. He needs to realize it's time to tell our guys to cut that crap out and act like we've been here before (even if we really haven't). We need to learn how to win with the expectation that we'll do so. Not every single win calls for a parade or celebration. I know if I were conducting the interview, one of my first questions would be about how he handles success on and off the field. Does he want to be the teacher or the cool substitute?

So he's not a perfect candidate by any means. But the real issues aren't what people are bringing up, at least not explicitly so. They're just bagging on him for non-issue and irrelevant reasons or setting entirely unrealistic and unreasonable expectations for the remainder of this year, ignoring that the context of the season makes those expectations damn near impossible. 

Some really good and pertinent points here. How they handle success in particular I don’t think has been discussed but you make a great point about the teacher v cool substitute analogy. The reactions to Minnesota and Los Angeles I wholeheartedly agree with.

He’s done the minimum needed, got the players to buy in and play hard, react well after a loss, now it’s the tough part, playing good teams and relying on more than effort. Game planning, out thinking people and being strategic.

[BackinBlack]

16 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Offense averaged 15.75 ppg in the first 8 games. 

Averaging 23.17 ppg currently. If not for the anomaly against the Chargers, the average drops to 15.20, right in line with the first half of the season average. 

They play the 8th and 16th rank defenses by DVOA. Will be interesting to see the average after 8 games. 

I don’t understand posts like this that say, you need to get rid of the charger game! It was a fluke it won’t happen again… but then say nothing about the Viking game…

remove the best, should also remove the worst then too? No?

[big_palooka]

15 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

So you’re taking out the highest scoring game average under AP to match it up with all of JMD averages to make your point sound better? 
 

Yea it doesn’t work that way like @Darbsk said

 

No, I was extracting the outlier until we have a full 8 games to compare.

 

[big_palooka]

17 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Averages don’t work like that sorry. The average is the average. What would it be if you took out the 0?

Agree with seeing what the average is after the next couple games against good defences. 

That was simply taking out the outlier to see where the average was prior to that game. I acknowledged we need to see the next 2 games to compare. 

But easy to see by the eye test the offense improved in large part to AOC being able to keep defenses honest with his arm.  And Jacobs picked up his pace recently. 

[big_palooka]

11 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

It literally hurts him that a "failed high school coach, failed college coach, unheralded lb coach on nobody's radar prior to November 2023, acting as an interim coach for a relatively bad team not beating the best teams in the league" has gotten equal or better results than the dude he spent 18 months defending to absurd levels at every turn. 

Homebody championed 3 years....and still weirdly champions that he'd demand 3 years for the next guy.....despite going full mutiny on the last guy before year 2 even concluded. He has no actual position, he just spouts nonsense and tries to promote his watered down jello consistency as "logic". 

My actual position is right there if you care to look. 

I respect AP, just like I respected Bisaccia. Both filled a role. That does not mean they are the best choices as coaches and I think the majority of NFL people proved that with Bisaccia. 

This all coming for the guy saying the defense will be bottom 5 next year instead of admitting Graham has coached a good defense. Where is the logic in that? 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

I don’t understand posts like this that say, you need to get rid of the charger game! It was a fluke it won’t happen again… but then say nothing about the Viking game…

remove the best, should also remove the worst then too? No?

Again... Nobody said get rid of the game. I will factor it when we get 8 games played and can properly compare. It was for perspective as the Chargers game was a complete outlier. The offense didn't have some breakout performance so much as they played an opponent that gave up on the season.  

That said, let's take the 0 out as well. The team averages 19 ppg a FG more under AP. 

The next 2 games will likely be more inline with their 15-19 point average as they meet 2 playoff caliber teams.