Week 10 Thread: (4-5) Commanders at (5-3) Seachickens, 4:30 ET on FOX / GIF THEME: Kardashians (let's suffer together)

[MKnight82]

6 minutes ago, Scott Land said:

Lol, what's Ron then? This don't make any sense. 

Ron’s just the placeholder 

[Scott Land]

4 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Ron’s just the placeholder 

Exactly, so what would it hurt to give EB a shot? Everyone keeps talking how he should be a nfl head coach, well let him prove whether he is or isn't. 

[e16bball]

I think there’s reason to feel good about EB at the moment. Since the light bulb went on at the end of the disaster against the Giants and he started doing what was absolutely necessary in moving the pocket and giving Howell easier reads, they’re averaging 420 yards a game over the next 3. That’s 4th in the league over that span. Pretty good.

I don’t really care for his demeanor/tough guy shtick either, but they’ve been moving the ball here lately and Sam is really starting to make moves.

[MKnight82]

7 minutes ago, Scott Land said:

Exactly, so what would it hurt to give EB a shot? Everyone keeps talking how he should be a nfl head coach, well let him prove whether he is or isn't. 

EB is a terrible coach. The worst possible outcome from this season would be is firing Rivera and EB somehow convincing them to keep him around as HC. It would set us back another 5 years. We need a clean slate.

[Scott Land]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

EB is a terrible coach. The worst possible outcome from this season would be is firing Rivera and EB somehow convincing them to keep him around as HC. It would set us back another 5 years. We need a clean slate.

He is a terrible coach? Players seem to like him. Offense seems to be producing besides Bills and Giants games. I wouldn't call him terrible. I would call our defense terrible and which coaches run that? Oh ya Rivera and Del Rio. What in the **** is it going to hurt to see if EB can handle running the whole team? The season is screwed anyways? If he sucks he's gone. If he's good then they have to make a decision. I highly doubt he's setting this team back 5 years the way Rivera has. 

[MKnight82]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think there’s reason to feel good about EB at the moment. Since the light bulb went on at the end of the disaster against the Giants and he started doing what was absolutely necessary in moving the pocket and giving Howell easier reads, they’re averaging 420 yards a game over the next 3. That’s 4th in the league over that span. Pretty good.

I don’t really care for his demeanor/tough guy shtick either, but they’ve been moving the ball here lately and Sam is really starting to make moves.

So we're applauding a guy for making adjustments in Week 9 that he should of made at halftime in Week 1? 

[MKnight82]

38 minutes ago, Scott Land said:

He is a terrible coach? Players seem to like him. Offense seems to be producing besides Bills and Giants games. I wouldn't call him terrible. I would call our defense terrible and which coaches run that? Oh ya Rivera and Del Rio. What in the **** is it going to hurt to see if EB can handle running the whole team? The season is screwed anyways? If he sucks he's gone. If he's good then they have to make a decision. I highly doubt he's setting this team back 5 years the way Rivera has. 

Yes he's a terrible coach he needs to be gone next year. 

[e16bball]

4 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

So we're applauding a guy for making adjustments in Week 9 that he should have made at halftime in Week 1? 

I’d say late in Week 7, but I take your point. 

I think it’s a little tough to bury a guy for being slow to abandon the plan when it’s his first time calling the shots. It is a little counterintuitive to have a guy like Sam Howell — big arm, shot taker, good scrambler, slow decision maker — and basically convert him to a WCO QB who is playing the quick game and moving the pocket and throwing a lot of YAC balls. Especially with the offensive talent built around 3 WRs, at least 2 of whom are best working downfield. That’s not really what you would inherently imagine is the best way to deploy any of those guys, although it’s turned out that it is the best way (for now, at least).

I’m not letting him off the hook for things I think are his fault (a big portion of the OL issues, for example). But I do think it’s only fair to give deserved credit if we’re also giving deserved blame.

 

[Thaiphoon]

9 hours ago, Scott Land said:

If you're trading Chase Young and Montez Sweat midseason, there should be no problem firing the coach to see what you have in EB. 

Players get traded midseason. That's why there is literally a trade window that is open until the third month in. Coaches generally don't get fired midseason and owners who do fire head coaches midseason generally are not looked at in a good light. Especially ones that, if things break right, could still be coaching in the playoffs (*)

If we were winless, that would be a different story. And even though I want Ron gone and think the season is over, we're still not mathematically eliminated. So Harris firing Ron midseason is not gonna happen. If he's gonna do it, he'll act like a more seasoned owner and wait to perform the after-action reports on the season, then bring Ron in and "crap" can him.

 

(*) don't get me wrong, I think our season is over. But I'm talking about how the rest of the league sees us.

[Thaiphoon]

20 hours ago, turtle28 said:

But the reasoning to move on from Rivera is 2 fold:

1. To evaluate Bieniemy for the job

2. To get a new GM in house who can start working on scouting for next season and build up his team for all of those jobs.

Buddy I get all that. And if I were Harris I'd probably have fired Ron in the offseason as soon as I got the reins of the team. At the very least he would've been gone after the Giants game.

But I'm not Josh and all I can tell you is what I THINK he's doing and why

[Thaiphoon]

9 hours ago, Scott Land said:

He traded Montez Sweat AND Chase Young midseason, how is that not impulsive?

How? Easy. It's called getting value for assets before they walk for nothing. It's a long(er) term strategy than the immediate focus this team has had for 2-plus decades. In fact, IMO this was the smartest move the front office has made in years when it comes to getting value for pending free agents.

I'll explain:

1) We knew we weren't going to pay them what they would've commanded in FA in the Spring. Just look at Sweat's contract and tell me you'd have paid that.

2) We have a TON of cap space and look to be players in the FA market (we have quite a few positions to fill after resigning our guys). Getting rid of $40M+ AAV from what we'd have to spend frees up $$ to spend on our players we want to keep and players we need to attract.

3) Any comp picks we might have gotten from Chase and Montez in 2025 would've been erased by deals we made to pick up players in FA. So they walk for nothing. This would be even worse than the compensation we got f0r Kirk and Trent because with them at least we got something.

4) There's a deadline approaching

5) We pocket a high 2nd and a late 3rd in 2024 draft, which pushes our current picks in the first 3 rounds to  

10, 37, 41, 74, 100

That's 3 of the top 45 picks AND an extra 3rd rounder we can either use or use in a trade up (or trade down if a team is in love with a player and we can pick up more picks/players doing it)

 

This wasn't an impulsive move. This was calculated and done with the long term health of the franchise in mind. 

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I’d say late in Week 7, but I take your point. 

I think it’s a little tough to bury a guy for being slow to abandon the plan when it’s his first time calling the shots. It is a little counterintuitive to have a guy like Sam Howell — big arm, shot taker, good scrambler, slow decision maker — and basically convert him to a WCO QB who is playing the quick game and moving the pocket and throwing a lot of YAC balls. Especially with the offensive talent built around 3 WRs, at least 2 of whom are best working downfield. That’s not really what you would inherently imagine is the best way to deploy any of those guys, although it’s turned out that it is the best way (for now, at least).

I’m not letting him off the hook for things I think are his fault (a big portion of the OL issues, for example). But I do think it’s only fair to give deserved credit if we’re also giving deserved blame.

 

Here's some more fun stats. 

Washington is dead last in sacks allowed in the NFL (47) and sack yards (-317). 

We are 28th in the league for plays over 40+ yards despite having 3 good WRs. 

Terry McLaurin is averaging 11.8 ypc which is by far the worst of his career. We can't really blame the young QB for that because McLaurin has always played with terrible QBs. 

McLaurin's total yards per game are down around 10 ypg compared to last year too. 

Dotson seems completely lost in the scheme and they haven't gotten him up to speed. 

They are 27th in the league in rushing yards per game, with a pathetic 87.9. 

This is despite Washington being 10th in the league in yards per attempt at 4.4 yards. 

But makes sense when you see we are dead last in rushing attempts in the entire league with only 20.2. For comparison there are 7 teams averaging over 30 rushing attempts per game. 

Washington is 21st in the league in 3rd down conversion on offense, at only 37.2%. 

The team is near the top of the league for most gross passing stats, but we're only 17th in points scored per game. 

This isn't an official stat, but my own observation is that we run a play out of the shotgun on 90% of 3rd and 1, 4th and 1 situations, which is completely idiotic. 

[Scott Land]

14 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

How? Easy. It's called getting value for assets before they walk for nothing. It's a long(er) term strategy than the immediate focus this team has had for 2-plus decades. In fact, IMO this was the smartest move the front office has made in years when it comes to getting value for pending free agents.

I'll explain:

1) We knew we weren't going to pay them what they would've commanded in FA in the Spring. Just look at Sweat's contract and tell me you'd have paid that.

2) We have a TON of cap space and look to be players in the FA market (we have quite a few positions to fill after resigning our guys). Getting rid of $40M+ AAV from what we'd have to spend frees up $$ to spend on our players we want to keep and players we need to attract.

3) Any comp picks we might have gotten from Chase and Montez in 2025 would've been erased by deals we made to pick up players in FA. So they walk for nothing. This would be even worse than the compensation we got f0r Kirk and Trent because with them at least we got something.

4) There's a deadline approaching

5) We pocket a high 2nd and a late 3rd in 2024 draft, which pushes our current picks in the first 3 rounds to  

10, 37, 41, 74, 100

That's 3 of the top 45 picks AND an extra 3rd rounder we can either use or use in a trade up (or trade down if a team is in love with a player and we can pick up more picks/players doing it)

 

This wasn't an impulsive move. This was calculated and done with the long term health of the franchise in mind. 

You make good points but here's where I am going to dispute. We had cap room to sign one of the two, that's the perk of having a 5th round starting qb. I wouldn't have wanted to pay Montez that money but we could've paid Chase. We created an extra spot of need when we have plenty of those already. Now we will end up using our first rounder on an edge (i hope not) but if we want premier talent that's what we end up doing. Our current DE's are trash. Anyone that says they're average are wrong. They are bad. So now if we use a first rounder on an edge, we have to find a tackle in FA. Not a lot of high end talent going to be available. Also need linebackers, I hope they sign at least one good one in FA. Interior OL needs to be addressed. Fuller and Curl need to be addressed. I mean there's needs all over. I hate creating needs that don't need to be created. 

[MikeT14]

Our "bad" DE in part time work had 4 sacks to Chase's 5 and Sweat's 6.5. I don't think their our future starters, but they've been fine for fill-ins until the issue is addressed. 

[Thaiphoon]

4 hours ago, Scott Land said:

You make good points but here's where I am going to dispute. We had cap room to sign one of the two, that's the perk of having a 5th round starting qb. I wouldn't have wanted to pay Montez that money but we could've paid Chase. We created an extra spot of need when we have plenty of those already. Now we will end up using our first rounder on an edge (i hope not) but if we want premier talent that's what we end up doing. Our current DE's are trash. Anyone that says they're average are wrong. They are bad. So now if we use a first rounder on an edge, we have to find a tackle in FA. Not a lot of high end talent going to be available. Also need linebackers, I hope they sign at least one good one in FA. Interior OL needs to be addressed. Fuller and Curl need to be addressed. I mean there's needs all over. I hate creating needs that don't need to be created. 

I think Chase was gonna force us to tag him. Which means close to $20M next season IIRC. So I think the intention was to move him and keep Montez. But when the Bears came calling with a 2nd rounder (that figures to be a high 2nd rounder), that was enough to get us to move. Because at that part of the draft, we can go OL (or TE with Bowers) and still get an impact player at the Bears pick and then ours. So maybe between the three picks you end up with an OT, DL, and LB or... TE (Bowers), OL, LB (assuming we switch to 3-4). And all three would be on cheap rookie deals. 
 

For FA? Yeah, we need LB, OL. And yes, we need to re-sign Fuller and Curl. Oh and btw, I might be wrong but I think with Forrest out at safety, teams have been testing us deep more often (especially when they see Forbes out there who is jus a liability on long pass attempts). 

Yes, there are needs all over, and generally I agree with you on not creating more needs. But I just think they were looking past this season and next season toward the longer term and figured that neither of the two were going to be here. So the decision was to get what we could now and build now while we have Sam on that rookie deal.