Week 15 Thread: 4-9 Commanders @ 6-7 Rams - 4 PM on CBS

[turtle28]

17 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Our o-line needs help and was curious about the guys we have on the team but we’ve hardly/never seen play. 
Julian Good-Jones G

Trent Scott T

Mason Brooks G

Jaryd Jones-Smith T

Alex Akingbulu T

I would like to know if any of these guys can amount to anything. I don’t have much faith that this coaching staff did them any favors.  

 

These guys are lucky to be on any NFL roster.

Edited December 18, 2023 by turtle28

[offbyone]

Cheesman isn't the problem.  Cheesman has been making mistakes since he got here in a position you don't ever make mistakes.  Rivera has tolerated this for too long.  No other coach would allow for that.  That is culture for you.  

I can't believe we had a high pressure goal line TD that was longer than a 2 minute drill.  That was the most pathetic display I have ever seen.  EB.

I am not sure what to think about Howell, but he is making it really really hard to not pick a qb.  At the same time, picking QB3 in the top 5 is not an ideal thing.

[turtle28]

25 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Cheesman isn't the problem.  Cheesman has been making mistakes since he got here in a position you don't ever make mistakes.  Rivera has tolerated this for too long.  No other coach would allow for that.  That is culture for you.  

I can't believe we had a high pressure goal line TD that was longer than a 2 minute drill.  That was the most pathetic display I have ever seen.  EB.

I am not sure what to think about Howell, but he is making it really really hard to not pick a qb.  At the same time, picking QB3 in the top 5 is not an ideal thing.

Yeah, I've been defending Howell for a month and it's been tiresome. I don't know how they don't draft a QB. The whole team is playing poorly but there's just no juice/spark with Sam right now. I don't think Bieniemy is helping him as we have no effin running game to help a young QB out and the play design is stagnant, not creative but I can't imagine the next GM not drafting a QB in R1.

I just sure hope to hell the next GM upgrades the OL at at least 2 spots, if not 3. 

Watching this offense makes me long for the days of Scott Turner when we were run first a lot & at worst balanced on offense most of the time.

Asking a 1st year starting QB to constantly be a sitting duck in the pocket as the D knows what's coming every play is malpractice & setting him up to fail by Bieniemy.

And I agree that Rivera is the problem here. There are so many things he's done wrong the last 3 years after a promising run to end 2020 that I can't even mention them all but, the dismantling of a once good OL year over year by Rivera is by far the #1 for me.

The Number 2 issue with Rivera for me is messing around with signing Fitzpatrick & trading for Wentz in years 2 and 3 looking for a QB quick fix rather than going with a young QB you're developing. 

This record was not inevitable for me as I saw our D as a top 10 D - boy were we all wrong - but the struggles this team would have to be consistent on offense was. A new offense to install that relied little on the running game and a first-year 23-year-old starter behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL was always a recepie for disaster.

Edited December 18, 2023 by turtle28

[offbyone]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, I've been defending Howell for a month and it's been tiresome. I don't know how they don't draft a QB. The whole team is playing poorly but there's just no juice/spark with Sam right now. I don't think Bieniemy is helping him as we have no effin running game to help a young QB out and the play design is stagnant, not creative but I can't imagine the next GM not drafting a QB in R1.

I just sure hope to hell the upgrade the OL at at least 2 spots, if not 3. 

Watching this offense makes me long for the days of Scott Turner when we were run first a lot & atwkrst balanced on offense most of the time.

Asking a 1st year starting QB to constantly be a sitting duck in the pocket as the D knows what's coming every play is malpractice & setting him up to fail by Bieniemy.

And I agree that Rivera is the problem here. There are so many things he's done wrong the last 3 years after a promising run to end 2020 that I can't even mention them all but, the dismantling of a once good OL year over year by Rivera is by far the #1 for me.

The Number 2 issue with Rivera for me is messing around with signing Fitzpatrick & trading for Wentz in years 2 and 3 looking for a quick fix rather than going with a young QB you're developing. 

This record was not inevitable for me as Insaw our D as a top 10 D - boy were we all wrong - but the struggles this team would have to be consistent on offer was. A new offense to install that relied little on the running game and a first-year 23-year-old starter behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL was always a recepie for disaster.

I still believe (and maybe I am completely off base) that we have a good number of good players and talented ones.  The problem is, the next staff will have to essentially reevaluate all of them since there is wholesale failure.  Hard to measure individual players when everything around them is wrong.  3 more weeks and we can move on.

[turtle28]

9 hours ago, offbyone said:

I still believe (and maybe I am completely off base) that we have a good number of good players and talented ones.  The problem is, the next staff will have to essentially reevaluate all of them since there is wholesale failure.  Hard to measure individual players when everything around them is wrong.  3 more weeks and we can move on.

I can go through the roster and tell people where I think we know we have starters for sure & where we either have a question mark or a major hole:

QB: Howell has flashed but obviously is a question mark as to if he can be the guy

RB: I think we have 2 good young backs in BROB & CRod but we don't have an ‘IT’ guy so I wouldn't be mad at all if we took a RB w/ one of our 2nd rnd picks

LT: Leno is meh, short of us taking a LT in R1 @ #3 or 4 it's hard to imagine upgrading him next year as the best OTs don't hit FA

LG: The biggest hole on our team. It's unbelievable to me that Ron has not solved this issue. Its something we finally had solved in 2019 when Allen/Kyle Smith & Gruden signed Flowers but moving on from Flowers continues to be a glaring mistake by Rivera in 2020 & 2022 through now.

C : Larsen is serviceable as is Gates, but they're both backup-level players & bc of Stromberg’s injury we have no clue if he can be a starter. Given Gates’s cap hit next year it's almost a lock that he is on the roster while he and Stromberg are battling it out to be the starting C

RG: I know some may disagree but at least for now Cosmi is the unquestioned best OL we have and will remain the starting RG for the foreseeable future.

RT: Wylie &/or Lucas. I feel they're both serviceable at best. Like with Gates, giving the ridiculous contract they gave to Wylie it’s hard to imagine him not being on our roster next year. Lucas could be our swing tackle again but my guess is if he's going to be a backup up he'd rather do it on a playoff caliber team which we won't be next year.

TE: Logan is a serviceable starter but we need a difference maker at TE. Everyone who said we needed to draft a TE in R1 or 2 last April instead of DBs was right. Bates behind him is a blocking TE only and Turner continues to be an enigma bc they don't play him.

They need to sit Logan and start Turner now that they're eliminated bc we need to see what we have in Turner. Really, it needed to happen weeks ago. It's beyond time to evaluate these young backups to see what we need to do in FA and the draft next season.

WR: We know Terry is at worst a #2 WR but he's flashed #1 ability every year since he was a rookie in 2019.

Whether it's bc of Howell, the inconsistent OL, or the scheme, Jahan Dotson is not getting targeted this year. There are two things that have changed, Bieniemy for Turner & Howell for Henicke. Jahan showed as a rookie he could play but he's had an awful sophomore slump with inconsistency in his route running and inconsistent hands vs. last year.

Again, I'm not sure why he isn't being effective but it's a combination of those 3 things. I’m thinking that as Lavar has said if we can upgrade w/ a taller WR like Tee Higgins opposite Terry then that allows Dotson to just be a slot WR which is probably his best fit.

Samuel could be re-signed if he wants to come back but I'd rather take that $ and spend a little more even for a taller WR like Tee Higgins.

Dyami Brown looks like he's topped out as a #4 or 5 WR. Another huge Rivera miss was taking him over Ar St. Brown.

 

On D we need upgrades at DE, MLB, CB & possibly FS still.

I think it's unlikely that we will re-sign Kendall Fuller given his age but I guess it's possible.

I'd rather sign a FA who's coming off his rookie contract that fits our next defensive scheme whether that's a scheme where we play more man or zone, we better sign FAs who fit our scheme.

I think next year that Forbes will be one of our starting CBs to start the season at least bc no matter what we need to see him play & be evaluated.

Juice has had a poor season which is surprising given how he finished 2022. I still don't know what to make of him but hopefully a better coaching staff can fix some of his issues like not tracking the ball well and not knowing when to turn and play the ball when a WR is going up for a catch.

I'm pretty much at the point where I think a position change for Juice will do him well. It doesn't seem he's fast enough to be an outside CB in the NFL & he'd be better at S. It's worth a try I guess bc at this rate Juice is looking like he tops out as a #4 or 5 CB in the league.

At S it sucks Forrest got hurt. We miss him a lot at FS bc he communicated well and is smart and like Juice, Butler is looking like he tops out as a backup and special teams guys.

I think we may have something with Quan Martin at SS, he just needs to play more & progress as a player.

We also have a solid 3rd S/Buffalo nickel/WLB in Curl and should Re-sign him if he'll have us. He's clearly our 3rd best defender.

I think a trio of Curl, Martin, and Forrest can be a solid safety tandem for us moving forward. Moving Juice to be a backup S along with Butler being a backup and that will be a solid S group.

Edited December 18, 2023 by turtle28

[lavar703]

They’re going to draft Daniels and they’re going to start over completely. We all know it’s going to happen. No new staff is tying themselves to Sam. Personally I think Daniels is going to be a mess at the next level but I hope we at least give him a chance to succeed. 

[MikeT14]

8 hours ago, turtle28 said:

LG: The biggest hole on our team. It's unbelievable to me that Ron has not solved this issue. Its something we finally had solved in 2019 when Allen/Kyle Smith & Gruden signed Flowers but moving on from Flowers continues to be a glaring mistake by Rivera in 2020 & 2022 through now.

I still don't understand why this is such a big deal though. NO ONE PICKED HIM UP AFTER WE CUT HIM. The Dolphins were done after one year. Was he serviceable? I guess. But he couldn't have been that great?

 

 

[Thaiphoon]

BTW - just to make you guys a bit more dismayed/pissed.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/rounds/_/round/6/season/2021

We traded up to select Cheeseman in the 6th round.

Look who was drafted right after him.

 

Oh and BTW - Sundberg was doing fine as our LS. He was costing us only about $1M per season.

[MikeT14]

7 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Oh and BTW - Sundberg was doing fine as our LS. He was costing us only about $1M per season.

I think he was hurt bad. I think we found out much later, but his career was seemingly all but done. We needed a replacement inevitably, but this one was a failure. 

[Thaiphoon]

38 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

I think he was hurt bad. I think we found out much later, but his career was seemingly all but done. We needed a replacement inevitably, but this one was a failure. 

Are you sure? Because he never retired. And he announced that the team was not going to engage in contract talks for a new contract. That's all I remember about that situation TBQH. Maybe my memory is fading but I don't remember Sundberg being banged up but I do remember it being a surprise that we were getting rid of him.

[MikeT14]

46 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Are you sure? Because he never retired. And he announced that the team was not going to engage in contract talks for a new contract. That's all I remember about that situation TBQH. Maybe my memory is fading but I don't remember Sundberg being banged up but I do remember it being a surprise that we were getting rid of him.

It wasn't during that time frame then.

Let me look. It's like we found out a year later or something he was more or less needing what was probably a career ending back surgery after the one he already had. I am pretty sure... like you said, all jumbled. 

[lavar703]

2 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

BTW - just to make you guys a bit more dismayed/pissed.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/rounds/_/round/6/season/2021

We traded up to select Cheeseman in the 6th round.

Look who was drafted right after him.

 

Oh and BTW - Sundberg was doing fine as our LS. He was costing us only about $1M per season.

This was around the time Ron could do no wrong. A lot of fans had no issue with him making the move to trade up for Cheeseman. It was dumb then and it’s dumb now that they’re cutting him. 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

They’re going to draft Daniels and they’re going to start over completely. We all know it’s going to happen. No new staff is tying themselves to Sam. Personally I think Daniels is going to be a mess at the next level but I hope we at least give him a chance to succeed. 

I think so too. I hope we're wrong but I don't get overly excited about a guy who played at ASU, was inconsistent, played in 2022 at LSU, was inconsistent and now all of a sudden in his 5th year is breaking out.

It's a red flag to me.

It's different than Burrow IMO bc Burrow didn't start at Ohio State. Burrow was stuck behind a future first-round pick & the guy before Haskins who beat Michigan every year. Burrow also had the it factor, watching him you just saw his leadership, his swag, his play from within the pocket, and his accuracy. 

The QB running to open up the pass in college to me is a red flag ever since RG3. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it, but I need a QB who plays from the pocket first before I worry about mobility.

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

I still don't understand why this is such a big deal though. NO ONE PICKED HIM UP AFTER WE CUT HIM. The Dolphins were done after one year. Was he serviceable? I guess. But he couldn't have been that great?

 

 

Ok but that's not really my point. My point is they let him go and didn't upgrade the position. I could give two flying *bucks if he never played again, I care more that we couldn't do better than him both times he left.

How can you let a good starting guard go in 2020 and not draft one at higher than the 4th round?

Then, how can you let the same guard go again in 2022 while losing your Pro Bowl RG and not draft a G pretty high or preferably 2 bc you lost 2 starters?

It's malpractice 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

BTW - just to make you guys a bit more dismayed/pissed.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/rounds/_/round/6/season/2021

We traded up to select Cheeseman in the 6th round.

Look who was drafted right after him.

 

Oh and BTW - Sundberg was doing fine as our LS. He was costing us only about $1M per season.

Are you pointing out that we passing in Trey Smith?

I refuse to believe that any OL who blocks for Mahomes would be good on another team. Mahomes is magical in avoiding the rush, extending plays & avoiding sacks. 

My hunch is if we had drafted Trey Smith that he'd be meh with us and maybe just a backup.