bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I'm real tired of the Panthers being used as a measuring stick for not trading up. Young is a good QB. He went to a bad team with poor ownership, no Oline or skill positions to help him. He wasn't an out of nowhere pick. He was projected as the #1 pick to start the season and played that way to the end. He will get right if they give him something to work with. It’s not about Young who may end up being a good QB. It’s the package they paid for to move up. DJ Moore and Caleb Williams for Young by itself could be a lopsided trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 17 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: The same people crying about QB moves now would be the same people crying in 2025 we don’t have 1st round or 2nd round picks because we traded up for a QB who couldn’t be out AOC. My advice is let the process play out. You don’t have to panic and make a bad deal. No, we'd be patient. Nobody is expecting instant gratification at QB. We just want to know we have a prospect with ability and upside to grow into the franchise QB. He'd start at some point during the season, but we'd hope AOC has developed, can start and be seen as a trade chip going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: It’s not about Young who may end up being a good QB. It’s the package they paid for to move up. DJ Moore and Caleb Williams for Young by itself could be a lopsided trade Sure in hindsight, which is a dumb way to look at anything. When the trade was made, I highly doubt they thought they would have the #1 pick in 2024. It all went off the rails for them. And, in the end if Young becomes the franchise QB they expected, it won't matter. And that's the point. Only looks terrible if he busts. Edited March 26 by big_palooka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 46 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Sure in hindsight, which is a dumb way to look at anything. When the trade was made, I highly doubt they thought they would have the #1 pick in 2024. It all went off the rails for them. And, in the end if Young becomes the franchise QB they expected, it won't matter. And that's the point. Only looks terrible if he busts. The Panthers panicked and got hosed at the moment now. Could change if Young breaks out. The inclusion of DJ Moore made it a bad trade who was their best offensive player at the end of 2022. It Compounded by the pick turning into the #1 pick where there a superior QB prospective the top Its a clear example of a mismanaged team overpaying for a trade in the draft Edited March 26 by bucksavage1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 37 minutes ago, big_palooka said: No, we'd be patient. Nobody is expecting instant gratification at QB. We just want to know we have a prospect with ability and upside to grow into the franchise QB. He'd start at some point during the season, but we'd hope AOC has developed, can start and be seen as a trade chip going forward. Yeah..... I just think it's near impossible to get many people on board if the options are AOC, Minshew, and a day 3 guy, amd rightfully so. Last year we were a better team than our record indicated. The argument "if we had a QB" absolutely applied. AOC did admirable enough, but he was shaky and needs a lot of improvement. If Jimmy played like he did in San Francisco, we win 10 games or more. Usually the "QB away from contending" argument is hyperbolic, but I think we saw the rare exception last season with us, especially at the end of the year. Point being, QB was such a clear and blatant need that to willingly go in with what we currently have is outright inexcusable. Get a QB and eat the L if he flops, but you gotta do something better than known backup level commodities. Like you say, AOC we hope can be a trade chip or even a long term backup for us. I'm not advocating for cutting the guy, nor is anyone else. But he has his limitations. Minshew...what even is he? He's not a potential franchise guy. He's not a 3rd stringer. He's a backup. And I don't really think he's much of a "bridge" QB either. He could well be that pesky Jeff Garcia type who winds up outplayed a rookie by default and just stunting their growth. Imo, it's totally cool having 1 of those guys on the roster, but both is a redundancy. And neither is cause for optimism because we already know what they are. Again, I would think differently if AOC had some elite traits just waiting to break out. But he doesn't, and that made QB our #1 priority by about a mile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Just now, bucksavage1 said: The Panthers panicked and got hosed at the moment now. Could change if Young breaks out. The inclusion of DJ Moore made it a bad trade who was their best offensive player at the end of 2022. It Compounded by the pick turning into the #1 pick where there a superior QB prospective the tips Its a clear example of a mismanaged team overpaying for a trade in the draft It's not an example of anything. If they took Stroud, this isn't a conversation right now. If Young breaks out and is a 10+ year franchise, this isn't a conversation. You're judging with hindsight because they ended up with the #1 pick this past season. If they didn't happen, this isn't a conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 49 minutes ago, big_palooka said: No, we'd be patient. Nobody is expecting instant gratification at QB. We just want to know we have a prospect with ability and upside to grow into the franchise QB. He'd start at some point during the season, but we'd hope AOC has developed, can start and be seen as a trade chip going forward. AOC was the 2nd best rookie QB last season. The thing that turns everyone off on him is the lack of mobility and rightfully so Id imagine he comes back better next season. Rumors are he’s been working on mobility within the pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 5 minutes ago, big_palooka said: It's not an example of anything. If they took Stroud, this isn't a conversation right now. If Young breaks out and is a 10+ year franchise, this isn't a conversation. You're judging with hindsight because they ended up with the #1 pick this past season. If they didn't happen, this isn't a conversation. The Panthers are the clear example of trading too much in the draft. The entire team was a mess and they don’t have regular draft capital until 2026. Next season 2nd round goes to Bears as well Stroud struggles with Carolina too last year. Not at the point Young did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 12 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Yeah..... I just think it's near impossible to get many people on board if the options are AOC, Minshew, and a day 3 guy, amd rightfully so. Last year we were a better team than our record indicated. The argument "if we had a QB" absolutely applied. AOC did admirable enough, but he was shaky and needs a lot of improvement. If Jimmy played like he did in San Francisco, we win 10 games or more. Usually the "QB away from contending" argument is hyperbolic, but I think we saw the rare exception last season with us, especially at the end of the year. Point being, QB was such a clear and blatant need that to willingly go in with what we currently have is outright inexcusable. Get a QB and eat the L if he flops, but you gotta do something better than known backup level commodities. Like you say, AOC we hope can be a trade chip or even a long term backup for us. I'm not advocating for cutting the guy, nor is anyone else. But he has his limitations. Minshew...what even is he? He's not a potential franchise guy. He's not a 3rd stringer. He's a backup. And I don't really think he's much of a "bridge" QB either. He could well be that pesky Jeff Garcia type who winds up outplayed a rookie by default and just stunting their growth. Imo, it's totally cool having 1 of those guys on the roster, but both is a redundancy. And neither is cause for optimism because we already know what they are. Again, I would think differently if AOC had some elite traits just waiting to break out. But he doesn't, and that made QB our #1 priority by about a mile. We’re better at QB next season even if we don’t draft one. AOC year 2 should be better than the rookie version Mishew is better than Shell of Jimmy G 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: https://www.nfl.com/news/dak-prescott-definitely-confident-he-ll-get-extension-done-with-cowboys Dak Prescott 'definitely confident' he'll get extension done with Cowboys I’ll believe it when I see it. Dak is gonna do what Kirk Cousins has done. He will get a fresh start and a huge contract on another team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 AOC not even gonna be in the league in four years. Can't believe this is a conversation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Lack of urgency? They immediately landed a decade long need at DT. Got a spot starter/bridge QB. I would say that was urgent. What more were you hoping for? I personally don't like trying to build in FA. It rarely works out as you hope. If adding Gardner Minshew shows you urgency, I don't know what to say. Are you more committed to supporting all of the weak moves Telesco made then you were to supporting all of the weak moves Ziegler made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 44 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: AOC was the 2nd best rookie QB last season. The thing that turns everyone off on him is the lack of mobility and rightfully so Id imagine he comes back better next season. Rumors are he’s been working on mobility within the pocket He had one good game / two okay games, you're not competing for anything with him though, he's the definition of a JAG. Who's better? Sanders / AOC / Hooker / Rattler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 39 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: We’re better at QB next season even if we don’t draft one. AOC year 2 should be better than the rookie version Mishew is better than Shell of Jimmy G 2023 For a team that beat a bunch of bad teams and backup QB's, win total is 6.5 next year, Vegas is expecting us to be one of the worst teams in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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