QB prospect cut ups

[dll2000]

I mean. That looks pretty good.  But what do I know.  

[Sugashane]

6 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I mean. That looks pretty good.  But what do I know.  

Fields has a damn good arm when he is on, but I just don't see - as a passer - where he is better than Williams. Both make wow plays but Williams does have a better release, he has accuracy at all levels of the fields and consistently hits his guys in stride more than Fields ever has. Also he has had to carry a much less talented team than Fields, and been given less help schematically. I mean Williams had Addison last year but this year had Washington and Rice as his top two options (Rice is a 3rd-4th round talent at best, likely getting a boost from who is father is). Fields had Olave for one year but also had Hill (crap NFL player but damn good college player), had Wilson for two years, and enough depth that JSN barely saw the field. Then the running games are massively in favor of Fields. Dobbins, Sermon, and Teague >>>>> Dye, Jones, Lloyd. Comes out to over 100 yards per game difference.

Then look at the OLs both team walked out. Munford, Jonah Jackson, Myers, Wyatt Davis, and had Dawand Jones, Nicholas Petit-Frere, Paris Johnson, Jr., etc. Over two years that is a LOT of NFL caliber talent, even if some were new and growing. Williams had Vorhees last year and Monheim is a likely late round pick. Who else of note? That's as much why I make the Mahomes comp. He isn't going to be Mahomes, but he has carried a passing attack with little help just like Mahomes did at Texas Tech. He wasn't just lining up with the better group in the trenches almost every game and having mismatches on the outside like Fields was able to. Like Mahomes there was a weak running game so teams lined up KNOWING that Williams was going to carry them to 35-45 points with his arm. Fields made a lot of beautiful throws but didn't have anywhere near the constant pressure that Williams has dealt with. 

Now there are bonuses for Fields too. He is taller, thicker, stronger, faster. I do think Williams moves better in the pocket but Fields is just a hoss so he can pull away and do his freak athlete stunts to turn nothing into something. Fields has a more professional demeanor, I don't believe for a second he has the ego Williams has. While Williams has the size advantage he has still found himself injured in each of his three seasons. So his it really helped him? 

They also both share some of the same issues. Both like to stretch out plays unnecessarily to get bigger chunks of yards. Great for ESPN but not great for longevity, take the 10 yard pass and let him make someone miss rather than constantly going for the 25 yarder where you have to take a hit. Both are really athletic and utilize it to their advantage constantly. Both hold the ball too long and that can throw off the timing of the routes. Both came from pretty simple offenses that are often 1-2 read options. Both can throw off platform (Williams is more accurate regularly though) because both have a more than enough arm strength. Both have meh-at-best footwork. A lot of times it seems they make their throws a bit harder due to throwing off their back foot or just not resetting when they DO have time. Neither does a really good job of protecting the ball with both hands or sliding early to prevent fumbles. That pisses me off about both of them. Williams can get away with it right now due to not playing in the NFL but that will need remedied quickly. 

I like Fields a lot, I drafted him in my real time draft. But I just don't have the faith that he will succeed in Chicago. I think he has to have a very run heavy system (including his passing being mobile) and if he is contained in the pocket then he is a much lesser player. Williams will have the same lumps as all rookies but I feel like he is a better pure passer than Fields - even today with several years less experience. To me that gives him the better chance at being a great player. 

[dll2000]

 

[dll2000]

 

[dll2000]

 

[dll2000]

 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Wouldn't shock me if the Bears prefer Maye.  Can you imagine if the Bears were able to move back one pick, get a decent compensation and still get the QB they actually want?

[refundmytickets]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:41 AM, Sugashane said:

Fields has a damn good arm when he is on, but I just don't see - as a passer - where he is better than Williams. Both make wow plays but Williams does have a better release, he has accuracy at all levels of the fields and consistently hits his guys in stride more than Fields ever has. Also he has had to carry a much less talented team than Fields, and been given less help schematically. I mean Williams had Addison last year but this year had Washington and Rice as his top two options (Rice is a 3rd-4th round talent at best, likely getting a boost from who is father is). Fields had Olave for one year but also had Hill (crap NFL player but damn good college player), had Wilson for two years, and enough depth that JSN barely saw the field. Then the running games are massively in favor of Fields. Dobbins, Sermon, and Teague >>>>> Dye, Jones, Lloyd. Comes out to over 100 yards per game difference.

Then look at the OLs both team walked out. Munford, Jonah Jackson, Myers, Wyatt Davis, and had Dawand Jones, Nicholas Petit-Frere, Paris Johnson, Jr., etc. Over two years that is a LOT of NFL caliber talent, even if some were new and growing. Williams had Vorhees last year and Monheim is a likely late round pick. Who else of note? That's as much why I make the Mahomes comp. He isn't going to be Mahomes, but he has carried a passing attack with little help just like Mahomes did at Texas Tech. He wasn't just lining up with the better group in the trenches almost every game and having mismatches on the outside like Fields was able to. Like Mahomes there was a weak running game so teams lined up KNOWING that Williams was going to carry them to 35-45 points with his arm. Fields made a lot of beautiful throws but didn't have anywhere near the constant pressure that Williams has dealt with. 

Now there are bonuses for Fields too. He is taller, thicker, stronger, faster. I do think Williams moves better in the pocket but Fields is just a hoss so he can pull away and do his freak athlete stunts to turn nothing into something. Fields has a more professional demeanor, I don't believe for a second he has the ego Williams has. While Williams has the size advantage he has still found himself injured in each of his three seasons. So his it really helped him? 

They also both share some of the same issues. Both like to stretch out plays unnecessarily to get bigger chunks of yards. Great for ESPN but not great for longevity, take the 10 yard pass and let him make someone miss rather than constantly going for the 25 yarder where you have to take a hit. Both are really athletic and utilize it to their advantage constantly. Both hold the ball too long and that can throw off the timing of the routes. Both came from pretty simple offenses that are often 1-2 read options. Both can throw off platform (Williams is more accurate regularly though) because both have a more than enough arm strength. Both have meh-at-best footwork. A lot of times it seems they make their throws a bit harder due to throwing off their back foot or just not resetting when they DO have time. Neither does a really good job of protecting the ball with both hands or sliding early to prevent fumbles. That pisses me off about both of them. Williams can get away with it right now due to not playing in the NFL but that will need remedied quickly. 

I like Fields a lot, I drafted him in my real time draft. But I just don't have the faith that he will succeed in Chicago. I think he has to have a very run heavy system (including his passing being mobile) and if he is contained in the pocket then he is a much lesser player. Williams will have the same lumps as all rookies but I feel like he is a better pure passer than Fields - even today with several years less experience. To me that gives him the better chance at being a great player. 

I think Williams will slip a lot of tackles in the NFL. Great agility, flexibility, and balance. But he won't break off 60 yard runs like Fields.

Williams is far more natural as a thrower. But he's about as natural a thrower as you'll ever see.

Biggest difference, for me, is that I can buy Williams running a traditional NFL offense. His actions (dropback, release, pocket movement) look a lot more natural than Fields'. When you scale back Williams' improvisational plays, you still have a great QB prospect.

[G08]

54 minutes ago, refundmytickets said:

I think Williams will slip a lot of tackles in the NFL. Great agility, flexibility, and balance. But he won't break off 60 yard runs like Fields.

Williams is far more natural as a thrower. But he's about as natural a thrower as you'll ever see.

Biggest difference, for me, is that I can buy Williams running a traditional NFL offense. His actions (dropback, release, pocket movement) look a lot more natural than Fields'. When you scale back Williams' improvisational plays, you still have a great QB prospect.

If Williams takes 1/3 of the hits Fields has taken in the NFL, he would die. Literally die.

All it will take is one defensive player coming at him full-speed when he's doing his pirouettes and he'll be knocked into the next millenium.

Edited January 12 by G08

[HuskieBear]

12 minutes ago, G08 said:

If Williams takes 1/3 of the hits Fields has taken in the NFL, he would die. Literally die.

ahh but there's the assumption that as the new #1 pick and smaller qb, penalties would acvtually be called for those same hits

[StLunatic88]

9 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

ahh but there's the assumption that as the new #1 pick and smaller qb, penalties would acvtually be called for those same hits

Is it a QB size thing? I always saw it as an establishment thing. 

Was Bryce getting a bunch of calls this year?

[dll2000]

18 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

ahh but there's the assumption that as the new #1 pick and smaller qb, penalties would acvtually be called for those same hits

I think if you scramble more behind LOS you are more likely to get calls.

Justin doesn't do much to avoid big shots either.  He slides really late often which does make it a tough call for ref.

 

[G08]

29 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

ahh but there's the assumption that as the new #1 pick and smaller qb, penalties would acvtually be called for those same hits

Calls or not, he would die.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

If Williams takes 1/3 of the hits Fields has taken in the NFL, he would die. Literally die.

All it will take is one defensive player coming at him full-speed when he's doing his pirouettes and he'll be knocked into the next millenium.

Nah. Russell Wilson and Rodgers aren't much bigger and survived while runni g around back there. Steve Young did in a league that didn't protect QBs, Warner got smoked constantly with his 7 step drops etc.

Fields takes most of his abuse due to being unaware and not protecting himself when he does scramble. Refs have missed calls but he should be smart enough to know the extra yard or two is less important than his own health once he gets the first downs. That's why he can't make it through a full season.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Is it a QB size thing? I always saw it as an establishment thing. 

Was Bryce getting a bunch of calls this year?

Ypure dead on. Definitely not a size thing.

They missed a TON of calls on Allen early on and he's built like a TE.