turtle28 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: still think ATL ends up with Fields. Russ doesn't strike me as the type of guy to take a lesser deal just because he is still getting paid from his previous deal, he will still get 25-30M on the market, IMO. Cousins is going to have to come off his fully GTD contract thing he has been getting, especially after his Achilles injury last year. I could actually see NE as a possible destination. The latest I’ve heard is that Cousins is a strong candidate to go to Atl. I don’t know why he’d go to NE seeing as they have average playmakers at best. Cousins staying in Minny or going to ATL is his best chance to get back to the playoffs and even win some playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 15 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Devin White Sucks? This is news to me. I’ve literally never heard that opinion before. The Bucs don’t win the Super Bowl without his flying around leading that defense two years ago. Dude is the equivalent of Chase Young. Talented football player that is very undisciplined and freelances way too often. It would not benefit our team to add him, IMO. https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/01/harsh-ending-for-devin-white/ https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/devin-white/43089 https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/03/beware-of-devin-white/ https://bucsreport.com/2023/12/11/is-it-time-for-the-buccaneers-to-move-on-from-devin-whit Quote 34. Devin White, LB 2023 team: Tampa Bay Buccaneers | Age in 2024 season: 26 White has great second-level range and is a productive blitzer who can get home to the quarterback. He has 23 career sacks since being drafted No. 5 overall in 2019. White has the ceiling of an impact linebacker against today's NFL passing games, but his 2023 production and tape wasn't as impressive as previous seasons. After three straight seasons with 120-plus tackles, he managed 83. Quote 55 Devin White LB · Age: 26 A second-team All-Pro when the Bucs won the Super Bowl, White is a physically gifted linebacker who often freelanced and missed assignments in coverage this past season -- which I'm sure didn't sit well with head coach Todd Bowles. I could keep going if you would like. That was from one google search. I am a HARD pass on Devin White. *edit* Here is an entire thread on White from our peers in the Bucs forum. Enjoy. Edited March 10 by Slappy Mc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Dude is the equivalent of Chase Young. Talented football player that is very undisciplined and freelances way too often. It would not benefit our team to add him, IMO. https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/01/harsh-ending-for-devin-white/ https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/devin-white/43089 https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/03/beware-of-devin-white/ https://bucsreport.com/2023/12/11/is-it-time-for-the-buccaneers-to-move-on-from-devin-whit I could keep going if you would like. That was from one google search. I am a HARD pass on Devin White. Thanks, I didn’t know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Dude is the equivalent of Chase Young. Talented football player that is very undisciplined and freelances way too often. It would not benefit our team to add him, IMO. https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/01/harsh-ending-for-devin-white/ https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/devin-white/43089 https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/03/beware-of-devin-white/ https://bucsreport.com/2023/12/11/is-it-time-for-the-buccaneers-to-move-on-from-devin-whit I could keep going if you would like. That was from one google search. I am a HARD pass on Devin White. Yeah, that’s the word that’s been out there about him the last couple years. I don’t watch nearly enough TB games to have a strong opinion on him — I loved him coming out of college, but the word is he’s been pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Just now, e16bball said: Yeah, that’s the word that’s been out there about him the last couple years. I don’t watch nearly enough TB games to have a strong opinion on him — I loved him coming out of college, but the word is he’s been pretty bad. I have to say though, I am very high on Patrick Queen and there is a lot of people that question his abilities, similar to White, and suggest that without Roquan showing up in Baltimore that he wouldn't have improved at all. I might just be bias with my opinion but I think Queen is a much better football player than White. I wouldn't break the bank for Queen, but I also would pay more for him than just about any free agent LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Dude is the equivalent of Chase Young. Talented football player that is very undisciplined and freelances way too often. It would not benefit our team to add him, IMO. https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/01/harsh-ending-for-devin-white/ https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/devin-white/43089 https://www.joebucsfan.com/2024/03/beware-of-devin-white/ https://bucsreport.com/2023/12/11/is-it-time-for-the-buccaneers-to-move-on-from-devin-whit I could keep going if you would like. That was from one google search. I am a HARD pass on Devin White. *edit* Here is an entire thread on White from our peers in the Bucs forum. Enjoy. I did read he had a foot injury last year. But as you posted he has the talent but struggles with biting on play action fakes & in coverage. “Rank in Pro Football Focus **Top 200 NFL Free Agents** for 2023: 73. PFF Comment: "White carries top-five-pick pedigree into free agency, which will always lead to a stronger market, and he's consistently one of the most productive pass rushers among off-ball linebackers, using his elite athleticism to explode into the backfield. White's issue at the NFL level has been biting on play action too frequently, freelancing at times and struggling in coverage generally." 2023 Performance: White finished third on the Bucs' defense with 83 tackles while also contributing 2.5 sacks, five tackles for loss, nine quarterback hits, two interceptions and six passes defensed. He tied for second on the team in both QB hits and interceptions. White started the first 11 games of the season and played nearly 100% of the defensive snaps in those contests. However, a foot injury snapped his string of 45 consecutive games played and starts in December and he missed three contests. Upon his return to action, White began to cede some playing time, primarily in likely run situations, with K.J. Britt, who had started in his absence. White had a key interception in his first game back from injury to help the Buccaneers beat the Jaguars, 30-12. In the postseason, White played 44% of the defensive snaps in a win over Philadelphia and 19% in a loss at Detroit. He contributed three tackles in those two contests.” He is more effective around the line of scrimmage as a tackler and as a blitzer. Seems to me it’s a mixed bag with him. He’s good at some things around the line scrimmage - even elite at them for his position - but coverage in space he’s not good at it. ”White has also proved to be a very effective pass rusher, recording 23.0 sacks in those five campaigns. In 2020 he finished with a career-high 9.0 sacks, becoming the only player in the NFL since 2012 to have at least nine sacks and 100 tackles in the same season. White's career totals also include three interceptions, 21 passes defensed, six forced fumbles, nine fumble recoveries (two returned for touchdowns), 40 tackles for loss and 64 quarterback hits. Since 2000, White and Hall of Famer Brian Urlacher are the only two players in the NFL to amass 500-plus tackles, 20-plus sacks and 10-plus takeaways over the first five seasons. Since 2019, White leads all off-ball linebackers in quarterback hits and ranks second in sacks and fumble recoveries. In addition to his 2021 Pro Bowl nod, White was a second-team Associated Press All-Pro selection in 2020.” https://www.buccaneers.com/news/2024-buccaneers-free-agent-focus-devin-white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I have to say though, I am very high on Patrick Queen and there is a lot of people that question his abilities, similar to White, and suggest that without Roquan showing up in Baltimore that he wouldn't have improved at all. I might just be bias with my opinion but I think Queen is a much better football player than White. I wouldn't break the bank for Queen, but I also would pay more for him than just about any free agent LB. I like Queen, my issue with him is can he be a MLB & call the defense? As I’ve said before he wasn’t able to be that guy - ala Jamin Davis - as a rookie but, maybe Queen has grown enough & learned enough from RoQuan to be a good to great MLB? I can’t answer that question but, the front office & the coaches have to be able to before signing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 It would be pretty sweet if they just said eff it, we’re fixing this OL and signed Smith, Onwenu and Cushenberry. It would cost a ton but with Cosmi and possibly a RT at the top of the 2nd round that’s a major improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 10 minutes ago, lavar703 said: It would be pretty sweet if they just said eff it, we’re fixing this OL and signed Smith, Onwenu and Cushenberry. It would cost a ton but with Cosmi and possibly a RT at the top of the 2nd round that’s a major improvement. Tyron Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 NFL Notifications 𝐋𝐀𝐓𝐄𝐒𝐓 𝐔𝐏𝐃𝐀𝐓𝐄 #Commanders expected to be top contenders to land OT Tyron Smith and TE Gerald Everett next week. Let the Adam Peters era begin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Ian Rapoport All-Pro and Pro Bowl LB Bobby Wagner is expected to test the market, and it’s currently viewed as unlikely that he returns to the #Seahawks, source said. Coming off a career-high 183 tackles, Wagner joins a talented off-the-ball LB group in free agency. I think he would add more than just his play in the locker room. 1-2 yrs. Like I’ve said it could help J. Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 3 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: I didnt know there was a limit of one on that. Good idea though. Let's cut Howell or take any offer as soon as we draft our savior at 2. *sarcasm* Who said anything about giving him away or cutting him? The types of trades I’m referencing are treating Howell as having maybe mid-3rd value, which (if anything) is overvaluing him. 3 hours ago, Slappy Mc said: Plenty of people were clamoring for them to be trading mid-season. What changes that now? Also, replacing a high priced DT should be fairly easy, we already have one replacement on roster. Not to mention the abundance of D-Line talent this year. This team is years away from being competitive, even with a young QB, it's almost a disservice to keep them. Might as well consider trading McLaurin too. As for what it has to do with Howell, would you argue that Howell, Payne or Allen have different values in return? To me, if the plan is to get as close to the first round as possible, you trade the higher valued asset where we can easier replace them. As I said in the post you quoted, I recognize the logic in trading Allen. I was open to the idea at the deadline and would be open to it now. Don’t really see the logic in trading Payne, a move that would drop $20M+ of dead cap on us and ship out a 27-year-old who can play and has been extremely durable. But everyone has a price, I guess. I honestly have no idea what Howell’s value is in the current market. The original post was in response to various suggestions (including from Keim) that a 3rd might be on the table for him. If that’s what we could get for him, then I think the surplus value of that deal surpasses by a wide margin what we’d get for either DT (compared to their value to us). When we’re talking about replaceability, that’s not even close. Mediocre talents with mediocre (at best) professional track records, even at QB, are fungible. Especially when you have a better (and younger) talent in place ahead of them. There are always a dozen or more viable veteran backups to choose from, and any of them can replace what Howell would mean to this team over the next two years (before he’s free to leave and seek greener pastures). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 19 minutes ago, e16bball said: Who said anything about giving him away or cutting him? The types of trades I’m referencing are treating Howell as having maybe mid-3rd value, which (if anything) is overvaluing him. As I said in the post you quoted, I recognize the logic in trading Allen. I was open to the idea at the deadline and would be open to it now. Don’t really see the logic in trading Payne, a move that would drop $20M+ of dead cap on us and ship out a 27-year-old who can play and has been extremely durable. But everyone has a price, I guess. I honestly have no idea what Howell’s value is in the current market. The original post was in response to various suggestions (including from Keim) that a 3rd might be on the table for him. If that’s what we could get for him, then I think the surplus value of that deal surpasses by a wide margin what we’d get for either DT (compared to their value to us). When we’re talking about replaceability, that’s not even close. Mediocre talents with mediocre (at best) professional track records, even at QB, are fungible. Especially when you have a better (and younger) talent in place ahead of them. There are always a dozen or more viable veteran backups to choose from, and any of them can replace what Howell would mean to this team over the next two years (before he’s free to leave and seek greener pastures). I think that is selling Howell a little short. I think its worth keeping him around in case something happens to the rookie and Howell all of a sudden gets it and becomes a legitimate starter. The types of returns you're talking about aren't worth trading away that possibility imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 21 minutes ago, e16bball said: Who said anything about giving him away or cutting him? The types of trades I’m referencing are treating Howell as having maybe mid-3rd value, which (if anything) is overvaluing him. It was a sarcastic response, but in some way captivates how I feel, about the suggestion that only one young QB can be on the roster. It literally hurts us none to keep Howell and now all of the sudden "as soon as they draft Maye/Daniels, Howell’s utility to the franchise is reduced to minimal." You in fact went as far to say that "And given the portion of the fan base who will continue to howl for him, it could easily be argued that he has negative utility to the franchise. Having another option is not a good thing — the last thing a young developing QB needs is distraction and dissension in the ranks." Basically you called him a cancer because he could threaten the new shiny toy and I'm just not about that. Thus I responded sarcastically that if he is that bad to the franchise, once they have their "savior" in the new rookie QB, just get rid of him for whatever scraps you can because of his "negative utility". It really had nothing to do with what you valued him at, which I agree is probably over his worth. If we net anything higher than a 5th for him, it has to be considered a net win. The hindsight game cannot be applied, but it would be viewed as more of a win if he went on and had minimal to no success elsewhere. 28 minutes ago, e16bball said: As I said in the post you quoted, I recognize the logic in trading Allen. I was open to the idea at the deadline and would be open to it now. Don’t really see the logic in trading Payne, a move that would drop $20M+ of dead cap on us and ship out a 27-year-old who can play and has been extremely durable. But everyone has a price, I guess. I honestly have no idea what Howell’s value is in the current market. The original post was in response to various suggestions (including from Keim) that a 3rd might be on the table for him. If that’s what we could get for him, then I think the surplus value of that deal surpasses by a wide margin what we’d get for either DT (compared to their value to us). When we’re talking about replaceability, that’s not even close. Mediocre talents with mediocre (at best) professional track records, even at QB, are fungible. Especially when you have a better (and younger) talent in place ahead of them. There are always a dozen or more viable veteran backups to choose from, and any of them can replace what Howell would mean to this team over the next two years (before he’s free to leave and seek greener pastures). I disagree with the bolded. Jon Allen and Daron Payne would easily net a minimum of a 2nd round pick. If Adam Peters were to trade them and not get more than a 3rd round pick, as suggested with Howell, he shouldn't be making those calls. They also have to give Phidarian Mathis more playing time at some point. He has to sink or swim. If he cannot hack it, we will be replacing him soon enough anyway. I also disagree that you can replace Howell, both the player and his salary, with a veteran option and have it be anything less than a net loss. It costs us 1.075M to keep Howell next year, what veteran QB are you planning on signing for equal to or less than that? Again if we are using players to trade up for an OT, which I am not particularly a fan of, IMO, it shouldn't be the QB position. I understand that I value Howell more than the majority of the fans and undervalue the prospects coming out in the draft compared to the vast majority of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 52 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I think that is selling Howell a little short. I think its worth keeping him around in case something happens to the rookie and Howell all of a sudden gets it and becomes a legitimate starter. The types of returns you're talking about aren't worth trading away that possibility imo. A mid-3rd is selling Howell short? A guy who (1) no one, including us, wanted to spend even a mid-4th on in the draft; (2) has now burned through half of his rookie contract; and (3) just authored a season with a 78 passer rating, including one of the most dreadful second halves of a season in recent memory? I don’t think it’s selling him short to say that despite all that, his value is still substantially higher now than it was on draft day two years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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