MOSteelers56 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 minutes ago, armsteeld said: Serious question: What's the difference between Kenny Pickett as a prospect and JJ McCarthy? JJ McCarthy hasn't shown that he can consistently get the ball downfield which KP did with a regular basis while at Pitt. McCarthy hasn't shown ANYTHING to be considered a first round QB. Yes I hear draft nuts (literally) saying McCarthy has so much potential and blah blah. What is that based on? Whispers from anonymous sources who say the NFL is high on him. I'm no QB whisperer but McCarthy had onbe of the best rushing attacks yet his passing numbers still weren't impressive. The WRs he had are thriving in the NFL but McCarthy didn't help them shine at Michigan. Oh well...as long as the Steelers aren't drinking that Kool-Aid then I'm ok with another team over drafting him. I think one of the major reasons why his passing numbers weren't great is because of Michigan's running game. I think JJ sat out 7 4th quarters this year. I think another stat was that UM had a 21 point lead in 11 of their games this year. My guess is that people look at his measurables and maybe leadership(I don't personally know this as I didn't watch ant Michigan games) and project him as an NFL guy. It's hard to fault him for playing on a juggernaut that ran the ball all over people all season. But to your point, I have no idea if he's going to be good. That's just what I've read about him as a prospect. There's a good thread about him over in the NFL Draft forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsteeld Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: I think one of the major reasons why his passing numbers weren't great is because of Michigan's running game. I think JJ sat out 7 4th quarters this year. I think another stat was that UM had a 21 point lead in 11 of their games this year. My guess is that people look at his measurables and maybe leadership(I don't personally know this as I didn't watch ant Michigan games) and project him as an NFL guy. It's hard to fault him for playing on a juggernaut that ran the ball all over people all season. But to your point, I have no idea if he's going to be good. That's just what I've read about him as a prospect. There's a good thread about him over in the NFL Draft forum. It's also borderline negligent to say that he can be a successful passer of the ball. That's why I scoff at suggestions/projections of people saying he is first round worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, armsteeld said: Serious question: What's the difference between Kenny Pickett as a prospect and JJ McCarthy? Exactly the question I was going to ask. There is literally nothing about JJ thats notably better than Kenny except his age, I guess. If anything, I have less faith in him as a pro prospect. Im not saying he is a worse candidate than Pickett was, but he certainly isnt much better and I didnt think Pickett was worth a top 50 pick. Id love to trade to some team who wants to make a similar mistake to the one we made when we drafted Pickett, but if we made the same mistake AGAIN, I would lose what little faith I have left in this organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, armsteeld said: Serious question: What's the difference between Kenny Pickett as a prospect and JJ McCarthy? JJ McCarthy hasn't shown that he can consistently get the ball downfield which KP did with a regular basis while at Pitt. McCarthy hasn't shown ANYTHING to be considered a first round QB. Yes I hear draft nuts (literally) saying McCarthy has so much potential and blah blah. What is that based on? Whispers from anonymous sources who say the NFL is high on him. I'm no QB whisperer but McCarthy had onbe of the best rushing attacks yet his passing numbers still weren't impressive. The WRs he had are thriving in the NFL but McCarthy didn't help them shine at Michigan. Oh well...as long as the Steelers aren't drinking that Kool-Aid then I'm ok with another team over drafting him. I think McCarthy is tempting at 20 because of our current QB situation, not because I’m in love with him as a prospect. I can acknowledge he is far from a sure thing though. I kept waiting for that one game Michigan would need to lean on him to win but it just never happened. Like I said if he fell to us and another team offered us a haul I would take it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 https://x.com/clay_fink/status/1760441791847735685?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og @armsteeld our boy Renardo Green. I remember all offseason listening to my FSU podcasts all anyone was saying was stopping Nabers was going to be the X factor in our game with LSU and how he was a projected top 10 pick and all this and then in the 4th quarter thinking “what happened to that Nabers guy everyone was talking about all offseason?” Oh yea Renardo Green shut him completely down. Now some draft guys are saying Nabers is a better prospect than Jamarr Chase. Find me a better game played this season against a better prospect than Renardo Green against Malik Nabers and LSU this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsteeld Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 (edited) 54 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: https://x.com/clay_fink/status/1760441791847735685?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og @armsteeld our boy Renardo Green. I remember all offseason listening to my FSU podcasts all anyone was saying was stopping Nabers was going to be the X factor in our game with LSU and how he was a projected top 10 pick and all this and then in the 4th quarter thinking “what happened to that Nabers guy everyone was talking about all offseason?” Oh yea Renardo Green shut him completely down. Now some draft guys are saying Nabers is a better prospect than Jamarr Chase. Find me a better game played this season against a better prospect than Renardo Green against Malik Nabers and LSU this year. If you don't mind, I'll show the vid to the forum.... *notes* That mirror & hip flip is flawless. Only flaw is he only used his hands once and that threw off the balance of Nabors which resulted in an easy interception. This dude has speed, savvy, technically proficient, and has the attitude that Coach Tomlin likes in his DBs. Edited February 22 by armsteeld Notes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, armsteeld said: If you don't mind, I'll show the vid to the forum.... *notes* That mirror & hip flip is flawless. Only flaw is he only used his hands once and that threw off the balance of Nabors which resulted in an easy interception. This dude has speed, savvy, technically proficient, and has the attitude that Coach Tomlin likes in his DBs. I still can’t figure out how to get tweets to show. I think it is because I’m on mobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 14 hours ago, armsteeld said: Serious question: What's the difference between Kenny Pickett as a prospect and JJ McCarthy? I’m gonna start with stating I’m not a McCarthy guy. Though he hasn’t needed to throw much, you shouldn’t penalize him for that because the Michigan run game was so good. If they had his throw it a bunch it would have been just to have him throw and Harbaugh cared more about winning. McCarthy reads the field a lot better. Can layer in the throws. Has a stronger arm than Kenny. Lots of his teammates respect him and see him as their leader. He’s a calm operator under pressure. Puts the ball on spots that allow his guys to make plays after the catch. A really huge upside is that he’s 21. There’s still room to grow with arm strength, overall strength, and foot speed. Compare that to Kenny who came in at 23. Kenny came into the league much closer to his ceiling than his floor, where JJ would be coming in much more at his floor. Even in the same class I would take JJ over Nix and Penix purely due to age in all but a few select situations. In fact in a broader sense Jayden Daniels seems to be one of the few QBs to break the perception of older QB going high. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, warfelg said: I’m gonna start with stating I’m not a McCarthy guy. Though he hasn’t needed to throw much, you shouldn’t penalize him for that because the Michigan run game was so good. If they had his throw it a bunch it would have been just to have him throw and Harbaugh cared more about winning. McCarthy reads the field a lot better. Can layer in the throws. Has a stronger arm than Kenny. Lots of his teammates respect him and see him as their leader. He’s a calm operator under pressure. Puts the ball on spots that allow his guys to make plays after the catch. A really huge upside is that he’s 21. There’s still room to grow with arm strength, overall strength, and foot speed. Compare that to Kenny who came in at 23. Kenny came into the league much closer to his ceiling than his floor, where JJ would be coming in much more at his floor. Even in the same class I would take JJ over Nix and Penix purely due to age in all but a few select situations. In fact in a broader sense Jayden Daniels seems to be one of the few QBs to break the perception of older QB going high. And I’ll add on to this a bit…if you’re drafting a QB, you want a guy that can be a top 5-7 QB. Pickett was/is a higher “floor” type pick and that’s why I was a fan of say going after Richardson last draft…I think McCarthy is that low floor higher ceiling type. You’d have to sit McCarthy for a year maybe more but I’m starting to come around on him at 20. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 6 minutes ago, AFF said: And I’ll add on to this a bit…if you’re drafting a QB, you want a guy that can be a top 5-7 QB. Pickett was/is a higher “floor” type pick and that’s why I was a fan of say going after Richardson last draft…I think McCarthy is that low floor higher ceiling type. You’d have to sit McCarthy for a year maybe more but I’m starting to come around on him at 20. Agree on everything but the coming around. I think with JJ you need a starter in place who’s a LT to lead. If we were basically done with Pickett and sign Kirk then I might do it.. That’s why I think Seattle is such a good landing spot for JJ. They need positions but can wait in the draft or create cap room. They are a well set up team where if JJ needed to take over the OL is decent, run game is good, WR’s are set, and defense is playing much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, warfelg said: Agree on everything but the coming around. I think with JJ you need a starter in place who’s a LT to lead. If we were basically done with Pickett and sign Kirk then I might do it.. That’s why I think Seattle is such a good landing spot for JJ. They need positions but can wait in the draft or create cap room. They are a well set up team where if JJ needed to take over the OL is decent, run game is good, WR’s are set, and defense is playing much better. No team that picks him in the 1st especially is going to let him sit for 2 years…1 year max. If the Steelers did go McCarthy at 20, I’m guessing they went very aggressive in FA and put guaranteed $$$ in year 2 of FA deals when the Steelers have a really google amount of cap room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 It does not make sense to get a QB in the 1st 2 days of the draft. It also does not make sense to get Justin Fields via a trade. The Steelers gave Jarvis Jones 4 years even though it was clear he was a bust pretty quickly. KP is not clearly a bust. Perhaps he is not a franchise QB but I would bet they give him at least one more year. Getting Fields as a possible 1 year rental on a new system is equally hard to imagine. Now if they could get him for a 4th round pick? Maybe. Still the option would be a commitment of $23M BEFORE HE PLAYS A DOWN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, jebrick said: It does not make sense to get a QB in the 1st 2 days of the draft. It also does not make sense to get Justin Fields via a trade. The Steelers gave Jarvis Jones 4 years even though it was clear he was a bust pretty quickly. KP is not clearly a bust. Perhaps he is not a franchise QB but I would bet they give him at least one more year. Getting Fields as a possible 1 year rental on a new system is equally hard to imagine. Now if they could get him for a 4th round pick? Maybe. Still the option would be a commitment of $23M BEFORE HE PLAYS A DOWN. I look at it this way…let’s say they give up a 2nd for Fields…you basically paid a 2nd and 2 years and roughly what $28 mill for a upside QB acquisition. I look at it as I said in a previous post…you want a guy to be a top 5-7 QB…is that Fields upside?…if everything hits right I think it is. Picking a QB high is the same thought peocess… However, it is also possible the best thing for the Steelers long term is to say go with Tannehill and let Pickett sink or swim for 6-8 games. If your QB isn’t a franchise type guy, there is no point in having him…Derek Carr level QBs or Russel Wilson are the biggest wastes of cap spaces in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, AFF said: If your QB isn’t a franchise type guy, there is no point in having him…Derek Carr level QBs or Russel Wilson are the biggest wastes of cap spaces in the NFL. You weren't around for the Cowher teams of the 90's :-) Build a good team and then get your QB. Still the best way to make it to the SB and win. Steelers are more than a QB away from a SB. Gambling $28M on a QB you hope will show enough in 1 year to prove to be a franchise that he has yet to show in any other previous seasons. Quite a gamble and one I would not spend a 2nd round pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 34 minutes ago, jebrick said: It does not make sense to get a QB in the 1st 2 days of the draft. It also does not make sense to get Justin Fields via a trade. The Steelers gave Jarvis Jones 4 years even though it was clear he was a bust pretty quickly. KP is not clearly a bust. Perhaps he is not a franchise QB but I would bet they give him at least one more year. Getting Fields as a possible 1 year rental on a new system is equally hard to imagine. Now if they could get him for a 4th round pick? Maybe. Still the option would be a commitment of $23M BEFORE HE PLAYS A DOWN. Is it true that we HAVE to pick up his 5th year option? Why can’t we have him play out his last year and then re-sign him next offseason if things work out? I have been confused by this part. Also…comparing how they handled a bust pass rusher 10 years ago to how they might handle a potential QB bust now is a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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