2024 Mocks

[MaddHatter]

16 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

Those stats are meaningless when you watch the games. Dink and dunk throws early on, empty stats late in games, terrible turnovers, and coming up small in important games - which is his history - far outweighs a QBR. And I'm not going to apologize for it. He is not good when it matters. We have 8 years of evidence.

Dak supporters baffle me. It's literal cognitive dissonance. You know that he plays terribly. You know that he comes up small when it matters. You know that he's incapable of putting a team on his back. You know that he's nearly entirely dependent on the team around him. Yet, it's always someone else's fault, and his QBR/PSR/TD:INT ratio, etc. are what matter. Not the terrible losses. Nope. Ratings.

Good. Grief.

Hold up - you knew NONE of that at the time of that stat line - dink and dunk passes? Cmon man.. you can claim he chokes and this and that, but hating on year 1 Dak as a 4th rookie starting and putting up that performance along with the most pass attempts to start a career without an interception, and you weee claiming he didn’t resemble an “NFL QB”?! Cmon man… his first year blew out Brady’s first 6yrs - were you saying Brady didn’t resemble an NFL QB also?

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

3 hours ago, MaddHatter said:

In a recent GM Draft I did, Mimis went 21 to WAS and Latham had gone to CIN at 18 so I ended up taking Jackson Powers-Johnson.  In the 2nd I ended up taking Jeremiah Trotter Jr. after both Paul and Beebe had just jumped off the board and Cooper and Wilson had gone a few picks before that.  Right after that pick Junior Colson came off to TB so clearly an early run on the few ILB's with starting potential.  IT wasn't a day 1 need but I didn't care for Blake Fisher or Christian Haynes at this point and figure Trotter was BPA.    In the 3rd, I traded down and picked up an extra pick, then selected Dominick Puni out of Kansas to play LG and let me slide Smith over to LT.  Not ideal, but that's what happens when you do nothing in FA and force your hand going into the draft.  Zak Zinter was another option that went a few picks later but I liked Puni more than Zinter here. I then packaged a 5th and 6th to jump up to the end of the 4th and snagged Braelon Allen to lead our RBBC.  At this point Wright, Brooks, Guerendo, Estime, Shipley and Corum were all off the board.  Right after Irving and Davis came off the board.  Had given Irving some serious consideration but didn't think he provided the right scheme fit for us and wasn't the work horse for short yardage/goalline plays we need.  Rico and Vaughn provide enough in the pass game IMO so felt like Allen was the better fit and a poor-man's Zeke-lite.  Still have 174 (5th) and 244 (7th) to go, but Draft's about done for impact players in 2024/25 and will be mostly BPA here on out.

Summary:
1. Jackson Powers-Johnson (IOL) Oregon
2. Jeremiah Trotter JR. (ILB) Clemson
3. Dominick Puni (OG) Kansas
4. Braelon Allen (RB) Wisconsin
5. TBD
7. TBD

Jeremiah Trotter Jr. ain’t it for me. Not in the 2nd at least

Edited April 9 by Nextyearfordaboyz

[MaddHatter]

10 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Jeremiah Trotter Jr. ain’t it for me. Not in the 2nd at least

Looking at the draft (see link), who would you have snagged there?

[plan9misfit]

46 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Hold up - you knew NONE of that at the time of that stat line - dink and dunk passes? Cmon man.. you can claim he chokes and this and that, but hating on year 1 Dak as a 4th rookie starting and putting up that performance along with the most pass attempts to start a career without an interception, and you weee claiming he didn’t resemble an “NFL QB”?! Cmon man… his first year blew out Brady’s first 6yrs - were you saying Brady didn’t resemble an NFL QB also?

And NONE <sic> of those stats existed when he first started playing, either, so your point is moot. Further, if you want to argue that those stats have merit, then you also need to admit that they were the result of dink and dunk passes and empty calorie playing time, since that's what they were primarily comprised of.

Also, I wasn't impressed with Brady early in his career, as it was widely known that, for the most part, his defenses carried him, which I openly stated at the time. (You should've heard how critical I was of him during his time at Michigan. I was NOT a Tom Brady fan. At all.) However, there was one primary difference in his game back then vs. Dak's: Brady stepped up and put the team on his shoulders and put them in positions to win the games when it mattered. Did he put up gawdy numbers? Not in the least, no. But, he made the plays that were necessary to win. And, more importantly, he didn't turn the ball over and put the team in a position to lose. Yes, a lot of that had to do with coaching, but a lot MORE of it had to do with him (and Adam Vinatieri making critical FGs), as he still had to execute the plays. Dak has never been able to demonstrate that ability.

Granted, it's patently unfair to compare almost any QB to Tom Brady, which I why I've never done that with Dak. I base my opinion of him on the information that I have at the time. As a rookie, I only had his time at Mississippi State to judge, which never impressed me. He was a (very) poor man's Syracuse era Donovan McNabb. As a pro, his clear limitations as a QB shone through, but Zeke covered up much of it. Later on, his inabilities with accuracy and arm strength were proven out in Kellen Moore's offense, which was a terrible fit for his skill set. But, his mental lapses and clear deer-in-the-headlights looks kept showing up, as they did against Green Bay. THAT'S the issue. He doesn't have the mental makeup to succeed. If he did, he could overcome his physical limitations as a passer. But he doesn't, and never has.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

1 hour ago, plan9misfit said:

Dak supporters baffle me. It's literal cognitive dissonance.

Theprojectionisstrongwiththisone.meme

Dak stepped into the league and went 13-3. Has been a pretty regular Pro Bowler, and made All Pro this past year, finishing second in MVP voting. He’s orchestrated some of the best passing seasons and overall offensive seasons in Cowboys history.

That none of those realities gives you even a second of pause about your priors tells me everything I need to know about the objectivity you have on this topic.

Is he perfect? No. Has he had bad games at worse times. Absolutely. Is he going to win a Super Bowl? Odds are certainly against him (as they are for most QBs). But he most has definitely put the team on his back, many, many times. And he’s definitely been a very good to excellent QB the vast majority of his time in the league.

[MaddHatter]

31 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

And NONE <sic> of those stats existed when he first started playing, either, so your point is moot. Further, if you want to argue that those stats have merit, then you also need to admit that they were the result of dink and dunk passes and empty calorie playing time, since that's what they were primarily comprised of.

Also, I wasn't impressed with Brady early in his career, as it was widely known that, for the most part, his defenses carried him, which I openly stated at the time. (You should've heard how critical I was of him during his time at Michigan. I was NOT a Tom Brady fan. At all.) However, there was one primary difference in his game back then vs. Dak's: Brady stepped up and put the team on his shoulders and put them in positions to win the games when it mattered. Did he put up gawdy numbers? Not in the least, no. But, he made the plays that were necessary to win. And, more importantly, he didn't turn the ball over and put the team in a position to lose. Yes, a lot of that had to do with coaching, but a lot MORE of it had to do with him (and Adam Vinatieri making critical FGs), as he still had to execute the plays. Dak has never been able to demonstrate that ability.

Granted, it's patently unfair to compare almost any QB to Tom Brady, which I why I've never done that with Dak. I base my opinion of him on the information that I have at the time. As a rookie, I only had his time at Mississippi State to judge, which never impressed me. He was a (very) poor man's Syracuse era Donovan McNabb. As a pro, his clear limitations as a QB shone through, but Zeke covered up much of it. Later on, his inabilities with accuracy and arm strength were proven out in Kellen Moore's offense, which was a terrible fit for his skill set. But, his mental lapses and clear deer-in-the-headlights looks kept showing up, as they did against Green Bay. THAT'S the issue. He doesn't have the mental makeup to succeed. If he did, he could overcome his physical limitations as a passer. But he doesn't, and never has.

Okay so what you're saying is that when we drafted him in the 4th round as a backup to Romo, you hated him and he wasn't an "NFL QB" and then after he went 13-3 and set records as a rookie, won OROY and was a nomination for MVP, you changed your tune and he was an "NFL QB" but since then he's struggled here and there and had some poor performances, and now you're all-in on him being a horrible QB that can never win a Super Bowl?  Just trying to get the story straight...

[MaddHatter]

36 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

And NONE <sic> of those stats existed when he first started playing, either, so your point is moot. Further, if you want to argue that those stats have merit, then you also need to admit that they were the result of dink and dunk passes and empty calorie playing time, since that's what they were primarily comprised of.

Oh, and since facts matter, Dak had 2,254 yards in the air on 311 completions, meaning his average pass was 7.24yds downfield. Certainly not a "dink and dunk" QB.  Meanwhile when you look at Mahomes first full season, he threw 2794 yards in the air on 383 completions, meaning his average pass was 7.29yds down field.  Guess he is a "dink and dunk" QB too

[plan9misfit]

26 minutes ago, MaddHatter said:

Oh, and since facts matter, Dak had 2,254 yards in the air on 311 completions, meaning his average pass was 7.24yds downfield. Certainly not a "dink and dunk" QB.  Meanwhile when you look at Mahomes first full season, he threw 2794 yards in the air on 383 completions, meaning his average pass was 7.29yds down field.  Guess he is a "dink and dunk" QB too

Aaaaand again, was Dak able to win anything of note when it mattered? I'm pretty sure that Mahomes can, does, and did. But that's clearly just a gut hunch.

[plan9misfit]

42 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Theprojectionisstrongwiththisone.meme

Dak stepped into the league and went 13-3. Has been a pretty regular Pro Bowler, and made All Pro this past year, finishing second in MVP voting. He’s orchestrated some of the best passing seasons and overall offensive seasons in Cowboys history.

That none of those realities gives you even a second of pause about your priors tells me everything I need to know about the objectivity you have on this topic.

Is he perfect? No. Has he had bad games at worse times. Absolutely. Is he going to win a Super Bowl? Odds are certainly against him (as they are for most QBs). But he most has definitely put the team on his back, many, many times. And he’s definitely been a very good to excellent QB the vast majority of his time in the league.

2-5 in the playoffs, and was pure trash in most of those games. It's not myopia when there's plenty of evidence.

And, he played exceptionally well in one of those losses, so I'd argue that he was 2-4. The rest? Welp...

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

12 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

2-5 in the playoffs, and was pure trash in most of those games. It's not myopia when there's plenty of evidence.

And, he played exceptionally well in one of those losses, so I'd argue that he was 2-4. The rest? Welp...

Not being great in the playoffs =/= “doesn’t resemble an NFL QB.

[MaddHatter]

50 minutes ago, plan9misfit said:

Aaaaand again, was Dak able to win anything of note when it mattered? I'm pretty sure that Mahomes can, does, and did. But that's clearly just a gut hunch.

Sorry - are we changing the subject when proven wrong?  Dink and Dunk has nothing to do with a win or loss in the Playoffs.  

[plan9misfit]

2 hours ago, MaddHatter said:

Sorry - are we changing the subject when proven wrong?  Dink and Dunk has nothing to do with a win or loss in the Playoffs.  

I’m not changing the subject. You’re the one who keeps trying to move the goal posts. Not me. I said that my opinion was based on the information that I had at the time. Dak improved over the years, but still lacks the talent to put a team on his back and overcome adversity.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

9 hours ago, MaddHatter said:

Looking at the draft (see link), who would you have snagged there?

I haven’t done every player in that range, but if it’s me, give me Ricky Pearsall. I expect the Cowboys would draft Junior Colson of Jonathan Brooks, both of whom would be better selections than Trotter.

[MaddHatter]

9 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

I haven’t done every player in that range, but if it’s me, give me Ricky Pearsall. I expect the Cowboys would draft Junior Colson of Jonathan Brooks, both of whom would be better selections than Trotter.

Interesting - I can see the argument for Brooks for sure, though I hate the idea of spending a Day 2 pick on any RB.  I have Trotter > Colson on my board, but think Colson is a solid 3rd round prospect and like his ties to Mazi 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

1 hour ago, MaddHatter said:

Interesting - I can see the argument for Brooks for sure, though I hate the idea of spending a Day 2 pick on any RB.  I have Trotter > Colson on my board, but think Colson is a solid 3rd round prospect and like his ties to Mazi 

I think if his name wasn’t Jeremiah Trotter, he wouldn’t be discussed this highly, in my opinion. He is undersized. That he ran a dreadful short shuttle but opted out of the 40 tells me everything I need to know about his speed and agility.

Except for playing at a big program, everything about this guy is anathema to Will McClay. They are hunting day 2 linebackers, and didn’t meet with him at the combine or on a 30 visit. And Trotter’s dad hates Dallas, said he won’t wear his son’s jersey if we drafted him.

I don’t see it happening. At all.