soulman Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: This is really why I like Verse over the other top edge options. He can win with power for sure, but also with speed around the corner, and he’s a really strong run defender as well. I don’t know that he’s ever an elite edge rusher, but I think he’ll be a well above average player in all facets of the game for a long time, and that has a TON of value to me. A guy who gets 12 sacks a year but is a liability against the run is less valuable to me than one who gets 8-10 sacks a year but is also stout against the run. Football games aren’t won just on passing downs. We need to win with our pass rush on 3rd and long, but we also need to get to 3rd and long first. Not sure you were back here yet, but a week or two ago I comped Verse to Ryan Kerrigan. Every team would be thrilled to have a Ryan Kerrigan at DE for the next decade IMO. I think this may be where the break down occurs as far as what he is as a player and what can be expected of him. Some scouts/analysts/draftniks have questioned his ability to get the kind of sack numbers and pressure you allude to here. He has the speed but not the rest of the package to ever be much more than a speed to power rusher. He's been a stout run defender but he's not put up double digit sack numbers even in college. That doesn't make him bad it just says is he the right guy for Flus? While he's been able to use his power very well against college OT will he succeed as well in the NFL against much better talent who can more easily handle his speed and bull rush? I don't see him as a bad choice at all I just question whether that's what Poles and Flus are looking for as that would make his skill set very similar to that of Montez Sweat but he lacks Sweat's size and length. I guess I just see him more as a guy who should add 10-15 lbs and play at LDE as opposed to RDE. Despite all that I'm not against drafting him. He played RDE in college and due to his age and experience he's probably more day one ready to play than other alternatives including Turner. I just question whether he's worth that #9 pick. If they rank him lower would it make more sense to trade down and compare him there with a 3 tech DT like Murphy? Poles and Flus both seem to rank the DT position above DE in this defense. So I'm just throwing out the same questions I feel the Bears should also be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 (edited) 53 minutes ago, soulman said: That doesn't make him bad it just says is he the right guy for Flus? The self-made, out of the box technical Power-Edge with a relentless motor, twitchy off the snap and some small cleanups that might push him to the next level? Why would Mr. HITS want a guy like that? No he’s not ever going to be Myles Garrett or a Bosa, but that’s why he isn’t a Top 3 pick. The difference between a LE and a RE is as minimal as ever (maybe not ever, but modern era) just like LT and RT. Edited April 14 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 14 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: The self-made, out of the box technical Power-Edge with a relentless motor, twitchy off the snap and some small cleanups that might push him to the next level? Why would Mr. HITS want a guy like that? No he’s not ever going to be Myles Garrett or a Bosa, but that’s why he isn’t a Top 3 pick. The difference between a LE and a RE is as minimal as ever (maybe not ever, but modern era) just like LT and RT. And this is where we'll have to disagree again. There are differences in the skill sets between the two and I've already posted on it. Maybe I'm being misunderstood. I'm not opposed to drafting Verse I just would not take him at #9 over a top WR like Odunze or Nabers and that he's not a Myles Garrett or Joey Bosa is why. I believe he's seen as an older player whose at or very near his ceiling and who while being a very good player has him limitations as well. He and Turner rank equally in the NFL Post Combine Rankings yet in every predictive mock Turner never gets past ATL or us and Verse more typically slides farther down the line. Why? Is it only his age? Here's my point coming from how I believe it all works. If you're gonna take the bluest of the blue at #9 I believe on the Bears board Odunze/Nabers will rank higher than Verse. If they prefer to draft for defense then I would determine how far down I might be able to trade and still get a guy I want. But I would also consider all others in that same range and compare Verse to them. If you listen to or read enough about the War Room on Draft Night that's pretty much how it goes down. You have your board and you stick with it and work it as best you can. Poles seems to be more of a BPA guy than a draft for position guy. Will that change this year? Let me wrap up by saying I'm all in on whatever he decides to do because this draft has some very good players throughout round one. I just feel myself that I would take the best quality surest of the sure this year with a thought process that looks beyond just 2024. He can't fill every need in this offseason so fill the ones you feel will have the most impact over the long term. He'll have 3 picks in the top 50 next year plus another round of FA. Stay patient and rebuild one brick at a time taking the BPA just like he's done with his secondary and draft difference makers. We're filling out core positions nicely but need more top shelf difference makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 Going through top 10. I think there is no scenario where Alt falls to Bears at 9 short of an off field incident. For Bears to get Odunze, if they want them, JJ McCarthy or another 4th QB has to be drafted before 9. That would make it: 1 Williams 2 Daniels 3 Maye 4 MH 5 Nabers or Alt or McCarthy 6 “ 7 “ 8 Turner 9 Bears Pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, dll2000 said: Going through top 10. I think there is no scenario where Alt falls to Bears at 9 short of an off field incident. For Bears to get Odunze, if they want them, JJ McCarthy or another 4th QB has to be drafted before 9. That would make it: 1 Williams 2 Daniels 3 Maye 4 MH 5 Nabers or Alt or McCarthy 6 “ 7 “ 8 Turner 9 Bears Pick. There's also the possibility or even likelihood of a surprise or two. Every draft has that "what are they doing" moment in the top ten it seems. Could totally see something surprising like Bowers TE, Arnold CB, or a DL going ahead of 9. Also have the strong feeling that through native draft spot or trades 4 qbs are going ahead of Bears. Seems like a lock that Harrison is ahead of 9. I think Harrison and Arnold might be the best player non QBs from the top 10 in a couple years. For a while I was really hoping a QB fell to 9 and someone wanted it from the Bears, not sure that happens at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 5 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: There's also the possibility or even likelihood of a surprise or two. Every draft has that "what are they doing" moment in the top ten it seems. Could totally see something surprising like Bowers TE, Arnold CB, or a DL going ahead of 9. Also have the strong feeling that through native draft spot or trades 4 qbs are going ahead of Bears. Seems like a lock that Harrison is ahead of 9. I think Harrison and Arnold might be the best player non QBs from the top 10 in a couple years. For a while I was really hoping a QB fell to 9 and someone wanted it from the Bears, not sure that happens at this point. A corner could go somewhere in there instead of Dallas Turner. One of top 4 QBs may fall. A lot of analysts like Quinyon Mitchell ahead of Terrion Arnold. But I think the main surprises this year won't be who goes in top 10. It will be who is drafting there. There will be at least one trade I think. We already know MN is asking to trade up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: A corner could go somewhere in there instead of Dallas Turner. One of top 4 QBs may fall. A lot of analysts like Quinyon Mitchell ahead of Terrion Arnold. But I think the main surprises this year won't be who goes in top 10. It will be who is drafting there. There will be at least one trade I think. We already know MN is asking to trade up. To me it would be foolish for AZ or Chargers to stand and draft. Depending on offers of course. AZ may take the offer the Chargers want. If I was AZ though I would have never stayed with Murray in first place. He isn't the guy I want. But they have made that decision and should trade out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 3 round 16 person multi-draft Inject it into my veins. Dream scenario. 1. Caleb Williams QB USC 9. Malik Nabers WR LSU 75. Braden Fiske DT Florida State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 It went QBs 1,23 Giants took Odunze. Chargers took Alt Titans took Fashanu. Atl took CB. Giants took Odunze. Left Nabers for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 Adding Xavier Legette. That dude is a monster. Built like DJ Metcalf. He may be another draft steal like Metcalf was. Despite his great speed though he doesn't get a ton of separation. Maybe he is too big. He wins 50/50 balls though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 I will also say I have been a big fan of Bowers since he I first saw him play looking at other GA players. But like I have explained elsewhere I am not sure Bears will use him properly to get max value from him. If any TE can get drafted very early and make an impact in NFL in recent years it is this guy. I'd rather have him than Pitts coming out. Even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 With a little over a week to go the favorite to be the Bears pick at #9 is Odunze. Not altogether unexpected huh? They key is the trade Minny makes to get their QB. AZ is who they target but should AZ say no I think we know they'll also hit up LAC and NYG. One way or another they're gonna get there and no matter where they do the odds favor a WR at #9 still on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 10 hours ago, soulman said: With a little over a week to go the favorite to be the Bears pick at #9 is Odunze. Not altogether unexpected huh? They key is the trade Minny makes to get their QB. AZ is who they target but should AZ say no I think we know they'll also hit up LAC and NYG. One way or another they're gonna get there and no matter where they do the odds favor a WR at #9 still on the board. Odunze may still get to 9 anyway, but 4 QBs are going before our pick whether or not one goes to MIN. Once they made the trade with HOU I think they pot committed themselves to making it happen. I do expect that MIN will indeed move up, and I expect whoever their trade partner is to make them pay a huge premium to do it. Initially my thought was that it would be best for us if MIN gets shut out from getting their QB. The more I think about it though, the more I think the best case scenario for us is MIN paying a ridiculous premium to move up for their guy, and then he’s a total miss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 (edited) 10 hours ago, soulman said: With a little over a week to go the favorite to be the Bears pick at #9 is Odunze. Not altogether unexpected huh? They key is the trade Minny makes to get their QB. AZ is who they target but should AZ say no I think we know they'll also hit up LAC and NYG. One way or another they're gonna get there and no matter where they do the odds favor a WR at #9 still on the board. They may pass on Odunze even if there. Edited April 18 by dll2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 13 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Odunze may still get to 9 anyway, but 4 QBs are going before our pick whether or not one goes to MIN. Once they made the trade with HOU I think they pot committed themselves to making it happen. I do expect that MIN will indeed move up, and I expect whoever their trade partner is to make them pay a huge premium to do it. Initially my thought was that it would be best for us if MIN gets shut out from getting their QB. The more I think about it though, the more I think the best case scenario for us is MIN paying a ridiculous premium to move up for their guy, and then he’s a total miss. MN with some very talented players overpaying or over trading for that final piece … again. They have their own sad history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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