FF's Big Board #22

[MaddHatter]

Discussion and voting on the top 50 spots of the FF Big Board.  Big Boards should be built around best player, regardless of positional value or team needs.

Also, please post more names you'd like to see added for the Top 30-50 picks.

[MaddHatter]

Personally think a lot of guys are going to get a nod here and well deserving of it.  I gave my vote to JC 

[Ozzy]

How is Barton from Duke better than JC Latham?  Same can be said for Jackson Powers-Johnson.  JC Latham has super star potential as a OG or could be a nasty RT.  

 

Penix Jr should be going soon also but Mims needs to be included soon as well. 

 

 

PS Kirk Cousins just got a 4 year $180 million deal coming off an Achilles tear, Penix Jr is going on almost two and a half years since his last ACL tear and two complete seasons without missing a game in college, and a ACL tear something that is far easier to get over fully than an Achilles tear...

 

 

[Ragnarok]

I'll be going Latham then BTJ.

[CWood21]

5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

How is Barton from Duke better than JC Latham?  Same can be said for Jackson Powers-Johnson.  JC Latham has super star potential as a OG or could be a nasty RT.  

I'm not sure if you're overvaluing Latham or undervaluing Barton.

[Tugboat]

It's WR voting time.  Weeeee.  I went Brian Thomas Jr.  But i could see the argument for any of the three.

[Tugboat]

6 hours ago, Ozzy said:

How is Barton from Duke better than JC Latham?  Same can be said for Jackson Powers-Johnson.  JC Latham has super star potential as a OG or could be a nasty RT.  

 

Penix Jr should be going soon also but Mims needs to be included soon as well. 

 

 

PS Kirk Cousins just got a 4 year $180 million deal coming off an Achilles tear, Penix Jr is going on almost two and a half years since his last ACL tear and two complete seasons without missing a game in college, and a ACL tear something that is far easier to get over fully than an Achilles tear...

 

 

 

I'd say Barton has at least as much "superstar" potential as a G/C compared to Latham.  Latham's value is really if you think he's an OT...where he's a massive human and has a ton of power.  But he's basically aiming for a Jawaan Taylor type RT for me.  Might be better, but he's got the same sort of profile that doesn't scream "superstar" to me.  More...potential road grading RT who can hopefully hold up in Pass Pro.

Barton is the one who has the easy movement and quickness to have that real Pro Bowl Interior OLineman caliber upside, and i'd say a very good chance of hitting it, with a very high floor.

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

 

I'd say Barton has at least as much "superstar" potential as a G/C compared to Latham.  Latham's value is really if you think he's an OT...where he's a massive human and has a ton of power.  But he's basically aiming for a Jawaan Taylor type RT for me.  Might be better, but he's got the same sort of profile that doesn't scream "superstar" to me.  More...potential road grading RT who can hopefully hold up in Pass Pro.

Barton is the one who has the easy movement and quickness to have that real Pro Bowl Interior OLineman caliber upside, and i'd say a very good chance of hitting it, with a very high floor.

Physically Latham is far more impressive than Barton, Latham is a massive human who is extremely well balance proportionally.  Huge feet, huge hands, long arms, thick legs.  Dude is put together for someone so large and is not top heavy or bottom heavy, he is thick all over and could be a monster at either OG or OT.  

 

Barton wasn't he basically a LT his entire career outside of playing center a bit to start his career?    Curious why he is instantly switched to IOL.  Latham could be a great RT but imagine the movement he could get a OG.  Jawaan Taylor didn't he have the most penalties in NFL history in one season last year?  Or he was way up there, he was way overpaid by the Chiefs and they are lucky his poor play did not cost them a championship last year, Latham could be better than him and is clearly better coming out of college than Taylor ever was.

[Tugboat]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Physically Latham is far more impressive than Barton, Latham is a massive human who is extremely well balance proportionally.  Huge feet, huge hands, long arms, thick legs.  Dude is put together for someone so large and is not top heavy or bottom heavy, he is thick all over and could be a monster at either OG or OT.  

 

Barton wasn't he basically a LT his entire career outside of playing center a bit to start his career?    Curious why he is instantly switched to IOL.  Latham could be a great RT but imagine the movement he could get a OG.  Jawaan Taylor didn't he have the most penalties in NFL history in one season last year?  Or he was way up there, he was way overpaid by the Chiefs and they are lucky his poor play did not cost them a championship last year, Latham could be better than him and is clearly better coming out of college than Taylor ever was.

I mean, Latham is very big.  Yes.  But that's pretty much it.

He's sluggish and slow.  He's just a big strong dude and that's it.

 

Barton has fantastic balance and control to go with extremely quick and agile movement skills.  He's projected to move inside to Center/Guard because he unfortunately doesn't have the raw length or wide area coverage to hold up at Tackle in the NFL.  But i'd say other than his lack of length, his physical skillset is significantly more exciting than Latham's.  He's actually athletic and mobile.  Everything about Barton's skillset projects extremely well to to Interior OLine where his traits will be major plus attributes and minimize his lack of OT length and coverage of space.  He's also played a little bit inside before, and through the entire pre-draft process, has looked exceptionally comfortable and smooth playing inside.

Latham is a guy to me where...if you end up having to kick him inside to Guard...it's because his slow feet and really, slow everything got him badly exposed at Tackle.  I feel like him opting out of even his Pro Day testing is a very bad sign about his level of real testable athleticism too.  That's not the profile of a "physically impressive" prospect.  That's the profile of a "very big" prospect who is afraid of what his practice testing was showing.

[Ozzy]

9 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I mean, Latham is very big.  Yes.  But that's pretty much it.

He's sluggish and slow.  He's just a big strong dude and that's it.

 

Barton has fantastic balance and control to go with extremely quick and agile movement skills.  He's projected to move inside to Center/Guard because he unfortunately doesn't have the raw length or wide area coverage to hold up at Tackle in the NFL.  But i'd say other than his lack of length, his physical skillset is significantly more exciting than Latham's.  He's actually athletic and mobile.  Everything about Barton's skillset projects extremely well to to Interior OLine where his traits will be major plus attributes and minimize his lack of OT length and coverage of space.  He's also played a little bit inside before, and through the entire pre-draft process, has looked exceptionally comfortable and smooth playing inside.

Latham is a guy to me where...if you end up having to kick him inside to Guard...it's because his slow feet and really, slow everything got him badly exposed at Tackle.  I feel like him opting out of even his Pro Day testing is a very bad sign about his level of real testable athleticism too.  That's not the profile of a "physically impressive" prospect.  That's the profile of a "very big" prospect who is afraid of what his practice testing was showing.

Didn't Latham do the field drills at the combine, I thought he looked decent in those and again physically he is so well proportioned for someone so big.  And yes kick him to OG if he cannot hang at RT.  I do feel OG might be where he ends up but time will tell.  

 

Just seems odd, if Barton is such a great athlete, then move him off of LT.  There are more than a few LTs in the NFL that are 6-4, hell he is 6-5 so again not sure where this he is only IOL is coming from but we will see.  

 

Latham is a high character guy and is motivated so I see no reason why he would not improve in the NFL.  Still he could totally crush dudes at OG and his ceiling is higher than Barton all day long I feel, especially if one is only looking at OG.  

[Tugboat]

11 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Didn't Latham do the field drills at the combine, I thought he looked decent in those and again physically he is so well proportioned for someone so big.  And yes kick him to OG if he cannot hang at RT.  I do feel OG might be where he ends up but time will tell.  

 

Just seems odd, if Barton is such a great athlete, then move him off of LT.  There are more than a few LTs in the NFL that are 6-4, hell he is 6-5 so again not sure where this he is only IOL is coming from but we will see.  

 

Latham is a high character guy and is motivated so I see no reason why he would not improve in the NFL.  Still he could totally crush dudes at OG and his ceiling is higher than Barton all day long I feel, especially if one is only looking at OG.  

Yeah, Latham looked...kind of alright in what i remember of the combine field drills.  Relative to expectations.  But he's still a big, heavy, sluggish mover.  

 

As far as Barton moving off LT...it's not that he's 6'4" per se.  It's that he has short arms and you can see on tape that he doesn't cover enough ground to hold up as a tackle.

Latham can potentially hold up at Tackle because he's just such an enormous human being to get around and like most road grading RTs in that mold, once he gets his hands on a guy...it tends to end the rep.  But the sluggish movement is going to make that far more of a challenge at the next level.

And even if you try to kick Latham inside...his sluggishness is still going to be a factor.  Things happen extra quick inside.  It's playing in a phonebooth, and while Latham would still be a very big body to get through on the interior...that lack of lateral quickness and redirect agility is going to get him burned at times.  Especially on stunts and delayed rushes where he can't get his hands on the guy immediately to control the rep.  Which isn't an issue i see at all with Barton who has top tier athleticism perfectly tailored to an Interior OLineman to adjust on things and play that short area game with aplomb.

 

Really, the only physically impressive thing about Latham is just that he's huge, and very strong.  Everything else about him physically is...very underwhelming.

[vikes635]

It shocks me Nate Wiggin's isn't getting more of these votes. CB1 imo. Has great height, speed and ball skills. What is the issue?

[Tugboat]

31 minutes ago, vikes635 said:

It shocks me Nate Wiggin's isn't getting more of these votes. CB1 imo. Has great height, speed and ball skills. What is the issue?

He weighs the same amount as one of those weird little designer dogs that people keep in their purses.

[Ozzy]

8 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah, Latham looked...kind of alright in what i remember of the combine field drills.  Relative to expectations.  But he's still a big, heavy, sluggish mover.  

 

As far as Barton moving off LT...it's not that he's 6'4" per se.  It's that he has short arms and you can see on tape that he doesn't cover enough ground to hold up as a tackle.

Latham can potentially hold up at Tackle because he's just such an enormous human being to get around and like most road grading RTs in that mold, once he gets his hands on a guy...it tends to end the rep.  But the sluggish movement is going to make that far more of a challenge at the next level.

And even if you try to kick Latham inside...his sluggishness is still going to be a factor.  Things happen extra quick inside.  It's playing in a phonebooth, and while Latham would still be a very big body to get through on the interior...that lack of lateral quickness and redirect agility is going to get him burned at times.  Especially on stunts and delayed rushes where he can't get his hands on the guy immediately to control the rep.  Which isn't an issue i see at all with Barton who has top tier athleticism perfectly tailored to an Interior OLineman to adjust on things and play that short area game with aplomb.

 

Really, the only physically impressive thing about Latham is just that he's huge, and very strong.  Everything else about him physically is...very underwhelming.

I think you really underestimate Latham's athletic ability, and losing what 20-30 pounds going up to the combine, if he keeps that weight off from 360 it will help.  The dude can pull, block downfield and when he gets on to a defender can drive them backward or into the ground, and he did those things at 360+ during the season.  He could be a beast as a guard and strength is there.  There are a lot of athletic OL but you need to be more than just an athlete or you will get pushed around by bigger stronger interior guys in the NFL.  Sure the Aaron Donald's are out there but not many of them, more of them are just big freaking dudes you have to handle.  

 

Just because Latham did not do the physical testing, sure that stinks but that field workout was not awful at all and he was the thickest, widest most powerful OL in that field workout I would say.  He is imposing and is not just some big fat guy out there, his size is all over and that is great.  Get him with the right coach, he will be great.

 

[onejayhawk]

Mims is tied for the lead. I can see that but did not expect it.