Debbie (dcash4) Downer: The Off-season that Meh'ed.

[Dcash4]

I guess I am just a glutton of punishment, like to argue, or am just dumb (the most likely). But here I am sharing all my thoughts on the offseason that has left me so underwhelmed at this stage. Tear it up. 

The Right tackle?

I am sorry, but anyway you shake it having Broderick Jones penciled in as your starter at RT is wrong. Your GM said he was drafted as a LT and will be a LT,  he he plenty of struggles swapping sides, and it's not a simple thing to just play backwards. 

A guy like Kevin Dotson, drafted in the 4th round, I can understand the necessity of needing to learn to be flexible....but not your first round pick. Not a guy whose future you hope is 10+ years long of GOOD or better football. 

And therein lies the problem: Where is his development coming from right now? Unless we draft a pro-ready RT, it's at RT. So, unless you draft a pro-ready guy (likely round 1 or 2 pick) through 2 years of his 4 year (with a team option) contract, he won't work at his designated side. I have no doubt he will improve from rookie year to 2nd year at RT, I also don't understand the development choice of doing that....then moving him back to start the process again. And if you don't get an NFL ready RT then you have your choice: delay last years top picks development or your new toys by forcing them to start? Decisions, decisions...

So Dan Moore, I guess, checks a box at best. But he is on an expiring deal, has no backup value, is one of the worst pass blocker in the league, only an average run blocker.... and is keeping your franchise LT from developing there. That's no bueno. 

Man-ing the Corner

A present to you, the Pittsburgh Steelers: A team that wants to play man concepts. A team with a size requirement (JPJ: 6'2, 194, Trice: 6'3, 200, PP: 6'2, 200, Wallace, 6', 180, Pierre: 6'2 185, Darrius Rush: 6'2, 198), needs a full time starter at cornerback, and loves positional flexibility....

....just picked up (drum roll, please!): a 5'10, 180lber, who comes from the highest zone coverage team, that has once played a full-season 6 years ago, and cannot play the slot!!!

So a dude that hasn't played in our scheme, historically doesn't fit our desired size, and can't stay on the field, and doesn't moved around. Check that box, I guess...

Now, there are reasons to be optimistic. Despite VERY limited man responsibilities last year, he did rank well in those opportunities. But it's a total guess on if that limited sample size remains or was just that... a limited sample size where one or two good outcomes skew the entire result. 

This is all pointing to a dude that ALREADY needs to be replaced via the draft, which would take another high end pick. 

The greater problem (use that same link for this one) is that he ranks very similar - and in some cases worse - than the guys we are running away from with Peterson and Wallace, both of whom could have been had for free. There's even a report about the Panthers on their way to cut Jackson (apparently i can't link articles anymore starting here), who then could have been had for free!

But we did not get Donte Jackson for free....we traded for him. So we better have crushed that deal in compensation

...The trade compensation:

...We did not crush the deal compensation. Don't believe me? Ask Alex Kozora (again, no linking available). We traded our #2 receiver (and one who ranks highly analytically at the position -- no link again) & and 7th(!!) for the 64th of 127th corner in the league (link) and 6th. 

See gif above. 

I don't care that we traded Diontae. I care more about the value at which they did it. Jackson could have been a cut FA. There plenty if like players to him in terms of ratings. We also could have very likely gotten better compensation. We couldn't have gotten 131 from the Chiefs? Hell, just cut Jackson out of it and take the Panthers 141 or 142 (they own both). Those picks could help go along way to trading for a guy like Courtland Sutton. You could use that extra compensation to trade up for a guy you want at receiver earlier in the draft. 

Jackson doesn't move the needle. He may not even fit our style and scheme. His acquisition left a massive hole at wide receiver that they seem to want to close and they got very little compensation back in order to help them do it 

Not great, Bob. 

Shorter thoughts now:

- I like Patrick Queen's youth and athleticism. I hate his position. ILB is the offensive RB/TE (pick whichever), IMO. If you have a dude you keep him. If you don't, it's all "linebacker by committee". His team didn't think enough of him to pick up his 5th year option and they traded a 2nd and spent $100M to upgrade him. Last year's issue at linebacker was due to attrition, not ability. They pieced together a group that was really coming along and injuries ruined it. Maybe Holcomb is done for good and they needed a body? Likelihood based on the way that position is going, they could have pieced it together for considerably less....but his age helps make up for that. 

Don't get me wrong, I like taking this swing. But even based on the contract they gave him they know it's a risk and it's just not a position I value enough to think that cash throw was the smartest thing they could do. 

- Fit check: You can all go back and check out my desire to take the swing on Justin Fields. He doesn't fit Arthur Smith's offensive style. The fun part is, neither does Russ....High negative play drivers who hold onto the football. Worth the try? Abso-freaking-lutely.....just really questionable as to if this is the proper setup for either to thrive. Probably harder to break Wilson then it is Fields. 

-Wide receiver fits too: Still can't figure out why we are chasing big name receiver in an Arthur Smith offense. He, oddly enough, doesn't seem like the one who fits anymore if we land a massive receiver trade like Aiyuk. 

- Another QB thought: Russ was a good signing (not my favorite, though) before they also got Justin. They need to play Justin though. There's no two ways around it. Sans us winning the super bowl this season it's in our best interest to see the guy on an expiring deal. They need to see what they have in him on the regular. Secretly hoping some top 10 QB gets dinged earlier in the year and they want to take a trade for Wilson. 

- Really like the Elliot, Patterson, and Johnston moves. No notes. 

Final:

So there it is. My guide to my underwhelming thoughts of this off-season. Your franchise pick developing on the wrong side of the ball, a checkbox corner who checks no boxes, a good receiver traded with no compensation back while you try to trade for a better one, big money spent at a hard position to put a premium on, and QB's with an OC that don't...and that's without getting into the necessity to draft a high end center because I have no faith in the dude who has taken less than 50 snaps at the position in the last 8 years and having no one to play the nickel. 

I hope these guys make me look like a massive fool and someone like Jackson is a pro bowler in a new system, but you CANNOT tell me there are not gigantic question marks with multiple things: scheme, fit, or price when it comes to our moves.

I think they kill the draft and make this period for me feel a lot better....but IMO, they left a lot of meat on the bone. 

[AFF]

Couldn’t resist could you?😆

[Dcash4]

19 minutes ago, AFF said:

Couldn’t resist could you?😆

Asked and answered, my friend! 

36 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

or am just dumb

 

[rlon]

I love our GM and think the glass is half full...head coach wise I feel a little different, but now it's not only 'past prime players' that want to come here for Tomlin. That is a very good development, and we are looking at a lot of cap space next year.

[JustPlainNasty]

They got rid of Santonio for a 5th rounder nobody thought that was a good deal. Pick ended up being Willie Gay i believe, but the bigger point is the team never looked back. 

I always liked the motivational saying 

"Don't look back, you're/we're not going that way"

Its good for things like relationships, jobs, etc. It usually hard to get through to the person its intended to help though...lol 

I have more to say about him but I/we dont need to get into a big tussle over old news. 

 

I think we have potential competition on the roster for that RT spot and to put your boy at LT. Spencer was a very good RT at Maryland and then put him at RG cause the Tackle the other guy they had was himself like Dan Moore in that he was better positioned at tackle and Anderson was good enough to do both. I was shocked when we drafted SA cause I had him ranked as one of my guys to watch as an underclassmen and that only happens with underclassmen who jump off the screen. Then they moved him to RG and I was like what?? And kind of backed off him without doing any research... Cook is alright too. This team has just about never had an outstanding OT let alone two. Drafting some guy in the 1st round that needs just as much time as guys that you can get in the 2nd or later rounds of this class who also need time to develop doesnt make a lot of sense to me especially one that has missed a lot of his opportunities cause he cant stay/be healthy. 

I'll buy Fuaga though..if he's there run up the card, mostly cause of the damage he will do going to the 2nd level. 

Edited April 25 by JustPlainNasty

[43M]

This would've been much better timed if you had waited a few days to see how the draft shakes out, which will undoubtedly change the makeup of this team.

As far as getting a stop gap RT, there was...what?   Maybe one or two semi decent RT options to start the offseason?   And we probably had to compete against at least 10 other teams that needed a RT.   

I admittedly am not a fan of how they have handled CB and especially WR, but a few things I will say...

1)   If we can draft someone at CB in rd 1-3 and bring in a decent vet before preseason, we will be in decent shape.   I have some low key faith in Cory Trice developing, and I wouldnt be shocked if we drafted another late rd CB too. 

There were some CBs I wish we wouldve taken a shot at, but thats a competitive market.

2)   I was not a fan of the Dionte trade and at least wish we had waited until after the draft to deal him.    In reality, we should have traded him two years ago and likely got a 2nd rd pick for him.   Now, I think they just wanted to move on, and I doubt we were getting great offers for him.

But Im definitely happy we didn't overpay for some of these meh WRs that got paid huge money.

As for the other notes...

Patrick Queen got a pretty modest deal and POSSIBLY allows us to fill that position adequately for a few years...something we haven't done at ILB since Shazier got hurt and Vince Williams retired.

You are right...Wilson and Fields are pretty poor fits, but what were the other options?   Stick with Kenny and Trubisky?    Sign Ryan Tannehill and draft Michael Penix Jr?   Mortgage our future for Kirk Cousins?

Again, how about waiting one or two days and seeing where we are?     Its not an ideal situation, but this is only Khan and Weidl's 2nd full offseason trying to fix this team.   Because, as Im sure you remember quite well, they foolishly let our previous outgoing GM run the 2022 offseason with one foot out the door, and are still trying to fix alot of HIS failures.

[warfelg]

24 minutes ago, 43M said:

This would've been much better timed if you had waited a few days to see how the draft shakes out, which will undoubtedly change the makeup of this team.

As far as getting a stop gap RT, there was...what?   Maybe one or two semi decent RT options to start the offseason?   And we probably had to compete against at least 10 other teams that needed a RT.   

I admittedly am not a fan of how they have handled CB and especially WR, but a few things I will say...

1)   If we can draft someone at CB in rd 1-3 and bring in a decent vet before preseason, we will be in decent shape.   I have some low key faith in Cory Trice developing, and I wouldnt be shocked if we drafted another late rd CB too. 

There were some CBs I wish we wouldve taken a shot at, but thats a competitive market.

2)   I was not a fan of the Dionte trade and at least wish we had waited until after the draft to deal him.    In reality, we should have traded him two years ago and likely got a 2nd rd pick for him.   Now, I think they just wanted to move on, and I doubt we were getting great offers for him.

But Im definitely happy we didn't overpay for some of these meh WRs that got paid huge money.

As for the other notes...

Patrick Queen got a pretty modest deal and POSSIBLY allows us to fill that position adequately for a few years...something we haven't done at ILB since Shazier got hurt and Vince Williams retired.

You are right...Wilson and Fields are pretty poor fits, but what were the other options?   Stick with Kenny and Trubisky?    Sign Ryan Tannehill and draft Michael Penix Jr?   Mortgage our future for Kirk Cousins?

Again, how about waiting one or two days and seeing where we are?     Its not an ideal situation, but this is only Khan and Weidl's 2nd full offseason trying to fix this team.   Because, as Im sure you remember quite well, they foolishly let our previous outgoing GM run the 2022 offseason with one foot out the door, and are still trying to fix alot of HIS failures.

Well said. Well said. 

I’ll add it’s interesting that much of this is problems only because “nothing was done”. But many of the guys that are gone also have posts from the season complaining about them. 

Neal is gone as many complained, but Elliott who’s much better wasn’t a good enough replacement. 

LB is the defensive RB and can be done my committee - yet it’s been a revolving door of crap since Shazier. 

Even at the DB one everyone complaining about not wanting Wallace back and celebrating Peterson’s cut are shocked to find out how hard it was to replace them (which again I encourage people to rewatch Jackson’s 2020-2021 tape. It’s good and why Carolina let Bradberry walk). 

Trashing Cole in season for how bad his snaps were and how lost he was but Joe it’s silly to let him walk. 

People letting calling for DJ to be benched after what he did against the Bengals and after some of his reported outbursts yet wanting to hold onto him. 
 

IMO DJ is the only one that doesn’t slide into this statement; what we moved on from was unproductive players who would have only stood in the way of the future of this franchise. And in DJs case I think we moved on from a guy who wasn’t good for your locker room. Interesting of note: he was very pointed about saying that he’s looking forward to being Bryce Young’s primary read on every play. So yea. 

[Dcash4]

26 minutes ago, 43M said:

how about waiting one or two days and seeing where we are

Why? This is how I feel about the off-season at this moment. We could have done better. 

Big props to @JustPlainNasty who pointed out they could just like Anderson and Cook. If that's the case, i feel very differently. But I currently don't feel like we moved the needle very much and rookies being forced to play everywhere in year 1 don't excuted me as much as ya'll apparently. And I personally feel we have more places that need impact than reasonable draft picks available. 

[Ward4HOF]

This was our Depth Chart on January 1st...

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/archive/279/PIT

With such stellar starters like Trenton Thompson, Chandon Sullivan, Mason Cole, Robinson, Walker, Peterson, Roberts, Pickett, with Rudolph and Trubisky as back ups... 

This is our depth chart, now, before the draft...and post Jun 1 cuts...and training camp cuts...

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/PIT

...but hey, Khan/Weidl/Tomlin have just been sitting on their hands, right??  Can't believe we didn't sign every tier-1 FA, or trade for all the other teams best starters...what the heck were they doing???  Slackers...

[JustPlainNasty]

41 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Why? This is how I feel about the off-season at this moment. We could have done better. 

Big props to @JustPlainNasty who pointed out they could just like Anderson and Cook. If that's the case, i feel very differently. But I currently don't feel like we moved the needle very much and rookies being forced to play everywhere in year 1 don't excuted me as much as ya'll apparently. And I personally feel we have more places that need impact than reasonable draft picks available. 

I think they like Anderson overall a good bit. They knew they couldn't put him on the PS so he stayed on the roster all year and was pretty much red shirted. They have some things they want to work on obviously perhaps strength or just learning to understand calls/techniques. If you ask me he's already what I think Graham Barton is best at, jack of all trades. While I am a fan of SA, even more so because of the crazy value we got him at, if he pans out to be even just a 4 or spot utility guy. I'm not very excited at all about drafting a guy who showed signs of struggling vs power at OT in Barton, and then expecting him to handle power inside. I guess the argument you could throw at me was Pounce didn't handle power exceptionally well ...he did have outstanding hand quickness though. Id just like to see some power in there if its available at least if you are going that route in the 1st round. Sorry for going off on a tangent. 

I'll handle any Olineman in the first I guess. I wont be very happy if its WR Brian Thomas or the like. I like Leggette a lot but would prefer the pick not be that way at the very least if its at 20. If we traded down to say 28 or lower than Id handle it better but prefer it to be Leggette if its anywhere near the top of the 2nd or so. 

Edited April 25 by JustPlainNasty

[Dcash4]

26 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

Can't believe we didn't sign every tier-1 FA, or trade for all the other teams best starters

Tell me you didn’t read what I wrote without telling me you didn’t read what I wrote. 

[Ward4HOF]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Tell me you didn’t read what I wrote without telling me you didn’t read what I wrote. 

Oh, I did...

"...but IMO, they left a lot of meat on the bone."

[Dcash4]

35 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

I think they like Anderson overall a good bit. They knew they couldn't put him on the PS so he stayed on the roster all year and was pretty much red shirted. They have some things they want to work on obviously perhaps strength or just learning to understand calls/techniques. If you ask me he's already what I think Graham Barton is best at, jack of all trades. While I am a fan of SA, even more so because of the crazy value we got him at, if he pans out to be even just a 4 or spot utility guy. I'm not very excited at all about drafting a guy who showed signs of struggling vs power at OT in Barton, and then expecting him to handle power inside. I guess the argument you could throw at me was Pounce didn't handle power exceptionally well ...he did have outstanding hand quickness though. Id just like to see some power in there if it’s available at least if you are going that route in the 1st round. Sorry for going off on a tangent. 

Anderson is probably the one that if you told me that they just loved him would probably change the math for me. If he was either already pushing Broderick to LT or starting at C sans a big improvement I’d feel different. 

Believing in the thing that sucks 70% of the time and is extremely fluid is hard just blindly trust in, but saying you have someone you believe in I can get behind. 

35 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

I'll handle any Olineman in the first I guess. I wont be very happy if its WR Brian Thomas or the like. I like Leggette a lot but would prefer the pick not be that way at the very least if its at 20. If we traded down to say 28 or lower than Id handle it better but prefer it to be Leggette if its anywhere near the top of the 2nd or so. 

Wide receiver just still doesn’t make sense to me. Not with Arthur Smith. His top receiver has never topped 7 targets per game, but we are gonna trade for one that will cost us draft capital and $30M plus? It’s just an odd fit. 

Receiver, IMO, is a 3rd through 5th round pickup. We need too many high end opportunities at other spots to overdraft a build out role player.

Edited April 25 by Dcash4

[Dcash4]

16 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

Oh, I did...

"...but IMO, they left a lot of meat on the bone."

Brother, the only examples I gave were that I think Wallace and Peterson are on par with Jackson (and provided a link that backs that up)…so where are you getting …

46 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

Can't believe we didn't sign every tier-1 FA, or trade for all the other teams best starters

from? 

[Ward4HOF]

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Your franchise pick developing on the wrong side of the ball

...as we've all been trying to point out, this has been addressed via the draft...

 

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

a checkbox corner who checks no boxes

Actually, they've noted on a few occasions, the need for a faster outside CB, which his 4.32 speed does 'check' a box. Plus, it's been reported that Tomlin has followed his career, and was interested in Jackson during his draft year...

 

17 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

a good receiver traded with no compensation back while you try to trade for a better one

There were reports of his 'unhappiness' in the locker room.  Plus, trading a 7th for a 6th, and the CB you keep trying to discredit, so that's 'no compensation'??

 

18 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

big money spent at a hard position to put a premium on,

$13M Guaranteed on a 3 year contract is big money??  Maybe 10 years ago...

18 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

and QB's with an OC that don't

don't, what??  mix??  Work well together??  What??  Do you think that the, what 5-6 hour meeting between Smith and Wilson, upon his visit, didn't adress any potential pitfalls in that area??  Surely, you don't believe that you know better than our HC/OC, on what our incoming QBs will or won't be able to to handle from Smith's offensive system???

18 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

and that's without getting into the necessity to draft a high end center because I have no faith in the dude who has taken less than 50 snaps at the position in the last 8 years

The Center position is deep in this draft.  There are plenty of guys that will go in Rounds 3-5, that are projected to succeed in the NFL.  The Center postion is devalued during the draft, which is well known.  Not all positions are evaluated the same.  Just because a 4th Rd QB is typically drafted to be a backup, doesn't mean a 4th Rd Center won't be drafted to potentially start, even if not right away.

 

18 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

and having no one to play the nickel.

Did you miss the reporting that Peterson has been 'advised' that he may be called upon, to be brought back in the Nickel spot, depending upon how the draft shakes out?  Peterson will be an excellent nickel, and is his best fit at this point in his career.

                        

Again, there is still plenty of off-season left to address, any potential 'gaps' in our roster.  I find it hard to believe that the one year our GM finally goes out, and is extremely active in FA, is being questioned as to not doing enough for our roster.  He's upgraded the following:

QB1, QB2, QB3, ILB, SS, DL backup, CB2 (whether you want to believe it our not), WR3, WR4, P, and KR

And you think he left 'meat on the bone', because he didn't upgrade the Tackle position (until, of course, yesterday, he did), or the Center position, (which, BTW, was cut, and is still available, for a worst case scenario), signed a speed CB, but not a 6'+ CB, (because that's what you think it's the only possible solution for a CB2), that he waited until the draft to sign our RT, didn't address our NCB, even though he's got Peterson ready on speed dial, upgraded our entire QB room, that surely, our new Offensive Coord. will be able to take into account, to get the most out of them...

So, what, pray tell, would you have done, that would have removed that 'meat on the bone', with still the draft, post Jun 1 cuts, and after Training Camp cuts left to be able to address??  I mean, the Chiefs didn't have a viable WR2, until last night.  at least 5 teams didn't have a viable QB on the roster, until last night, etc., etc.  Hate to break it to you, but most teams also had several areas of their roster that needed being addressed.  Just because Khan didn't build the roster the Colbert way (basically, keeping most dead weight, until after the draft, then cutting from the roster), doesn't mean he left meat on the bone; we're still in the midst of the off-season, brother.  Give it a chance to all play out before presenting Khan's hindquarters to the fire, yeah??  There is still plenty of time, and plenty of work to do, before game one of the season...