VikeManDan Posted May 1 Author Share Posted May 1 A long read but a good one talking about trading in the NFL draft. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40052203/should-teams-trade-nfl-draft-lessons-deals-2024-class-winners-losers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 56 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: A long read but a good one talking about trading in the NFL draft. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40052203/should-teams-trade-nfl-draft-lessons-deals-2024-class-winners-losers great read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, VikeManDan said: A long read but a good one talking about trading in the NFL draft. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40052203/should-teams-trade-nfl-draft-lessons-deals-2024-class-winners-losers He really tore that Dallas Turner trade-up to shreds. I don't really see how the package they gave up is equivalent to the 1st overall pick, but get the criticism. And so does Kwesi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 26 minutes ago, Socrates said: He really tore that Dallas Turner trade-up to shreds. I don't really see how the package they gave up is equivalent to the 1st overall pick, but get the criticism. And so does Kwesi. It was two different moves though.... So you can't really judge it as one move. Once they've made the first trade, it only matters if the second one makes sense. Those previous move are sunk costs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 17 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: It was two different moves though.... So you can't really judge it as one move. Once they've made the first trade, it only matters if the second one makes sense. Those previous move are sunk costs. I think you actually do need to look at it as one trade...a move up from 42 to 17. If you look at it in that context, it makes the cost far more reasonable...the fact that they are looking at it as two moves actually does it an injustice in perception. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted May 1 Author Share Posted May 1 I'd never even heard of the Chase Stuart chart until reading that article. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) Can’t look at #42 to #17 alone. Minny likely valued Turner as an even higher pick but just got him at #17. what if they thought he was #7 on the big board as an example. Edited May 2 by CriminalMind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 56 minutes ago, CriminalMind said: Can’t look at #42 to #17 alone. Minny likely valued Turner as an even higher pick but just got him at #17. what if they thought he was #7 on the big board as an example. Did you read the article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 38 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Did you read the article? Yes. I did not like the #42 to #23 trade pre-draft. Seems like the article might be saying that if Minny successfully traded #11 & #23 (+?) for the #3 pick to select JJ McMarty, then things might be justified. Without knowing the Vikings big board, it’s challenging to evaluate what they did (to an extent). i didn’t even ‘love’ the trade up for Turner at #17, I’d prefer we waited till Turner came off, and see what it would have taken to get Chop instead Edited May 2 by CriminalMind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 8 hours ago, CriminalMind said: Yes. I did not like the #42 to #23 trade pre-draft. Seems like the article might be saying that if Minny successfully traded #11 & #23 (+?) for the #3 pick to select JJ McMarty, then things might be justified. Without knowing the Vikings big board, it’s challenging to evaluate what they did (to an extent). i didn’t even ‘love’ the trade up for Turner at #17, I’d prefer we waited till Turner came off, and see what it would have taken to get Chop instead Turner if they did not take him at #17 would have got to the Rams, Steelers or the Dolphins so no way he would have been around at #23. And I also seriously doubt Chop Robinson will be an equally effective pro compared to Turner, And Dallas out performed Chop in the 40 and in his vertical and has longer ams as well and has been wildly more productive compared to Robinson who has never really been super productive. Sure Robinson has a thicker build. The article for sure made it seem like trading up is rarely a great thing and always trading back and collecting picks is better. But for the Vikings specifically they already did not have any picks in the 2nd and 3rd because of trades they made before the draft, and were not picking till the 4th so in that regard why not just go get the guys you want who are around. The Turner trade was needed to get him at #17, the McCarthy one who knows if anyone would have traded up with the Jets to select him, most likely not but they were clearly afraid someone was going to. With the free agents one could say this 2024 draft is easily the best one for Kwesi, the others especially that first one was pretty bad. Last year was just ok but one has quality in this one and guys like Jackson who will compete for a starting spot and hopefully get rid of Booth or another poor CB. Rouse and Jurgens greatly improves the depth on the OL which is massively lacking last year in terms of good talent and young talent. In terms of 2025, it is awful and going to be a real struggle, that is terrible and it is not like they traded to get some super star QB that is a proven veteran. Usually teams that have so few picks do that like the Rams with Stafford or the Broncos when they got Russell Wilson. So in that regard it could be a huge issue, especially when you have teams like Green Bay who in this past draft had a ton of picks and will easily hit on half of them, got great value in the late 7th also. Then again it is a 53 man roster so cannot keep everyone so hopefully they can pickup some guys who are cut to add to the roster and do well in terms of getting UDFA in 2025 which they did again this year with a good haul I feel. 1st rounder 5th rounder 5th rounder 2025 free agents as of right now, but assume they get Jefferson without paying Kirk Cousins which is nice. But Aaron Jones who knows but who knows if he can stay healthy or not. Justin Jefferson Byron Murphy Aaron Jones Sam Darnold Harrison Phillips Cam Bynum Shaquill Griffin Dan Feeney Jihad Ward Patrick Jones Jonathon Bullard Brandon Powell They sure went all in in 2024 draft, but at least they did not give up multiple 1st round picks to do it and as long as they hit big with Turner and potentially the 2025 1st rounder it should be good. If it is a low 1st rounder, ideally they simply trade that pick back to get a few 2nd rounders or a 3rd rounder and a 2nd. Then could address RB and DL or CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 9 hours ago, CriminalMind said: Yes. I did not like the #42 to #23 trade pre-draft. Seems like the article might be saying that if Minny successfully traded #11 & #23 (+?) for the #3 pick to select JJ McMarty, then things might be justified. Without knowing the Vikings big board, it’s challenging to evaluate what they did (to an extent). i didn’t even ‘love’ the trade up for Turner at #17, I’d prefer we waited till Turner came off, and see what it would have taken to get Chop instead Turner is a much better prospect than Chop Robinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 18 hours ago, VikeManDan said: A long read but a good one talking about trading in the NFL draft. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40052203/should-teams-trade-nfl-draft-lessons-deals-2024-class-winners-losers That is a decent read and I do agree trading back is great at times but just take 2023, as if Texas trading up for Will Anderson Jr or Seattle for Devon Witherspoon or the Lions for Gibbs, as if those trades were not all great deals? Sure at times it does not work but other times it does, but ultimately it matters how stable the organization is and how well they draft consistently, if they do a good job year in and year out then taking some gambles and losing picks is not big deal and at times you do get some great players. Sure there is the trading up to get Trey Lance that did not workout and many others but Dallas moving up to get Micah Parsons, Bills to get Josh Allen or Chiefs to get Mahomes or Tampa Bay to get Wirfs etc. With salaries though that is where it really comes into play, because obviously paying rookies especially a rookie QB is way cheaper if the dude can play. Texans are taking advantage of that right now and should be a top 5 team in the NFL next year because of it. Then again it is not always a great move, like the Vikings where I could only rationalize that they did not want to pay Kyle Hamilton the money at #12 and waiting till pick #32 to pick Lewis Cine and then pick #42 to pick Andrew Booth. On paper sure that should be ok but turns out one of those guys is a perennial Pro Bowl/All Pro player and the other two will be cut either this year or next. So in that regard that was absolutely awful to trade back to get two DBs instead of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sad People Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 19 hours ago, VikeManDan said: A long read but a good one talking about trading in the NFL draft. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40052203/should-teams-trade-nfl-draft-lessons-deals-2024-class-winners-losers This was a good read. "In the end, the Vikings sent their second-, fifth- and sixth-round picks in 2024 and their second-, third- and fourth-round picks in 2025 to add Turner. By the Stuart chart, this deal is a nightmare. They paid more than double what the No. 17 pick typically returns. They gave up something close to the equivalent of the No. 1 pick in a typical draft to land Turner by the Stuart chart". One of the things i dont really like about trade charts is what he said in the last sentence of that paragraph. Like in no way in reality would we ever get 1OA in a draft by giving up what we gave up in order to get Turner. Maybe im just being too literal but it just seems to be a bit misleading atleast to me. Im paraphrasing here because i dont remember exactly what he said but he mentions how teams should value late round picks then goes on and says that late round picks very rarely hit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Any chance Travis Hunter stays at WR in the NFL instead of CB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 10 hours ago, CriminalMind said: Yes. I did not like the #42 to #23 trade pre-draft. Seems like the article might be saying that if Minny successfully traded #11 & #23 (+?) for the #3 pick to select JJ McMarty, then things might be justified. Without knowing the Vikings big board, it’s challenging to evaluate what they did (to an extent). i didn’t even ‘love’ the trade up for Turner at #17, I’d prefer we waited till Turner came off, and see what it would have taken to get Chop instead Turner is going to be light years better than Chop Robinson. Even when he was available to me at #23 in many of the mocks, I struggled taking him on occasion, because I don't really view him as a quality first-rounder. He really struggled against quality offensive linemen. If the Vikings still had Andre Patterson coaching the D-Line (and they were still strictly running a 4-3), I'd love Chop...but he's got significant developing to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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