Detroit signs Jared Goff to 4 year extension worth $212 million/$170 M guaranteed

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Soggust said:

So, honest good-faith question, why were the Ravens willing to let him walk if every scout and front office in the league should have known he was a HoF QB entering his prime?

Well unfortunately we don't know much about the negotiations, I think the idea was the Ravens did not want to give out a Deshaun Watson-type fully guaranteed deal. No other teams stepped to the plate, and the Ravens signed Lamar to a bargain contract that is about the same as Hurts, Herbert, and Goff.

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I'm asking because I think almost every reason or concern is equally applicable to the Lions' perspective, no? Because none of us, even paid professional scouts, can predict the future with certainty (I don't mean this to be snarky).

So, it just seems to fall into the "everyone passed on Aaron Rodgers" kind of thing for me, where scouting isn't an exact science. Especially when the guy has enough concerns that a team is willing to let him walk, despite being an MVP QB entering his prime.

IDK, it's pretty well established that predicting how college players will play in the pros is a crapshoot. If a player puts 5 years on tape in the NFL, it much easier to predict their future.

I'm not trying to kill the Lions here, I'm just saying for a team that is all about aggressiveness and risk-taking in games, the decision to ride with milquetoast Goff rather than go get Lamar - when their contracts are the same - is pretty passive. Maybe it'll pay off for them! But I always assumed Ben Johnson will take an HC job, I'm not sure how Goff will play without him. 

[Forge]

I think Goff is poised for a big year this season

[Louis Friend]

3 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

I mean, it's kind on the scouts and front office to know that Lamar Jackson changes very minimally from year-to-year, and his dip in production from 2021-2 was more due to his team collapsing around him than him regressing as a player.

Based on that they had an opportunity to sign Lamar when he was undervalued, but rather they chose to sign Goff when he was at his peak value. The result is they are now paying Goff about what Lamar would have cost. I'm not sure that's smart business.

But it wasn’t the same cost. Lamar wasn’t an UFA. In order to acquire him, Lions would have had to give up multiple picks + compensation to the Ravens, signed Lamar to a huge contract and changed their entire offense to suit his playing style. Or they could re-sign their own QB who is a top 8 QB himself, costs no picks to re-sign and they don’t have to change their offense for. And those picks last year were used on Gibbs, LaPorta, Branch and Campbell. I think the Lions made the smart business choice. Especially seeing as they made it as far as the Ravens last season. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Louis Friend said:

But it wasn’t the same cost. Lamar wasn’t an UFA. In order to acquire him, Lions would have had to give up multiple picks + compensation to the Ravens, signed Lamar to a huge contract and changed their entire offense to suit his playing style. Or they could re-sign their own QB who is a top 8 QB himself, costs no picks to re-sign and they don’t have to change their offense for. And those picks last year were used on Gibbs, LaPorta, Branch and Campbell. I think the Lions made the smart business choice. Especially seeing as they made it as far as the Ravens last season. 

Why would the Lions have to change their offense? Lamar played at an MVP level in Monken's aggressive downfield passing attack. I think this talking point about Lamar only functioning in Roman's offense should have died by now. 

You are right the Lions would have to have given up their own first in 2023, so that would be Campbell. He's okay, but you'd still have Gibbs, LaPorta, and Branch.

I don't necessarily see Goff as a top 8 QB, but YMMV. He plays well in a stacked offense with great offensive coaching, but I think plenty of QBs would be as productive as him in that spot. It's just the lack of mobility, bad results under pressure, and bad results playing outside that drop him IMO.

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I think the Lions made the smart business choice. Especially seeing as they made it as far as the Ravens last season. 

I think the coach and the management made a good choice, insofar as Goff will likely take them to the playoffs the next couple years as long as Ben Johnson is around. So they're jobs are safe for the next couple years. Don't rock the boat. Play it nice and safe, and they'll collect those checks for years to come.

[Nnivolcm]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Play it nice and safe, and they'll collect those checks for years to come.

Yup. That's what the Lions coaching staff is known for. 

[fortdetroit]

The Lamar Jackson stuff is hilarious. I was talking about QBs who can carry their teams. That’s a Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Mahomes type. Jackson does not fall into the same category. He’s had an elite defense for years but always loses in the playoffs because he plays like ***.  No thanks. 

Edited May 26 by fortdetroit

[AngusMcFife]

17 hours ago, fortdetroit said:

The Lamar Jackson stuff is hilarious. I was talking about QBs who can carry their teams. That’s a Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Mahomes type. Jackson does not fall into the same category. He’s had an elite defense for years but always loses in the playoffs because he plays like ***.  No thanks. 

And as a Ravens fan, I'm very glad we don't have a milquetoast stiff like Goff who constantly crumbles under pressure, can't move, sucks outdoors, is only good with elite offensive coaching, great RBs, and OL play, and is getting paid more per year than 2x MVP Lamar.

I give credit to the Lions for building a great offense and having a great OC. But imagine Ben Johnson leaves and Sewell gets injured. You are paying $53 million per year to a guy who needs everything around him to be perfect, but is not really a difference maker. Much different than Lamar, who can drag a bad/injured team to the playoffs by himself. It's not a good value of a contract. The Lions could still win the Super Bowl, though, in spite of that. So it might work out.  

[nagahide13]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

And as a Ravens fan, I'm very glad we don't have a milquetoast stiff like Goff who constantly crumbles under pressure, can't move, sucks outdoors, is only good with elite offensive coaching, great RBs, and OL play, and is getting paid more per year than 2x MVP Lamar.

I give credit to the Lions for building a great offense and having a great OC. But imagine Ben Johnson leaves and Sewell gets injured. You are paying $53 million per year to a guy who needs everything around him to be perfect, but is not really a difference maker. Much different than Lamar, who can drag a bad/injured team to the playoffs by himself. It's not a good value of a contract. The Lions could still win the Super Bowl, though, in spite of that. So it might work out.  

Obvious troll is obvious

[fortdetroit]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:20 AM, AngusMcFife said:

And as a Ravens fan, I'm very glad we don't have a milquetoast stiff like Goff who constantly crumbles under pressure, can't move, sucks outdoors, is only good with elite offensive coaching, great RBs, and OL play, and is getting paid more per year than 2x MVP Lamar.

I give credit to the Lions for building a great offense and having a great OC. But imagine Ben Johnson leaves and Sewell gets injured. You are paying $53 million per year to a guy who needs everything around him to be perfect, but is not really a difference maker. Much different than Lamar, who can drag a bad/injured team to the playoffs by himself. It's not a good value of a contract. The Lions could still win the Super Bowl, though, in spite of that. So it might work out.  

Yes, his teams have been so bad over the years.  Here are the league rankings of his scoring defenses he has had to work with since joining the Ravens: 1st, 3rd, 19th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd.  The one season in his career he didn't have a friggin top 3 defense and it was ONLY below average, he missed the playoffs, what a surprise.  

I've sure all of those top 3 defenses required tons of dragging by Lamar just to get to the playoffs.  It's hard to win games when your defense gives up an entire 17 points for sure. 

[AngusMcFife]

3 hours ago, fortdetroit said:

Yes, his teams have been so bad over the years.  Here are the league rankings of his scoring defenses he has had to work with since joining the Ravens: 1st, 3rd, 19th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd.  The one season in his career he didn't have a friggin top 3 defense and it was ONLY below average, he missed the playoffs, what a surprise.  

I've sure all of those top 3 defenses required tons of dragging by Lamar just to get to the playoffs.  It's hard to win games when your defense gives up an entire 17 points for sure. 

I'm not going to argue the Ravens don't have a good D. We've had the best D for the past 25 years.

But I'd say your method of evaluating D is not that great. Especially since the Ravens ran the ball so much from 2018-2022, that depresses some of the counting stats. For example in 2021 the Ravens were 19th in scoring defense but 32nd in yards/play. The fact that you consider that a D that is last in yards/play and last in NY/A only below average speaks to your capacity for intelligent analysis. 

It funny that you criticize him for missing the playoffs that year. Maybe you forgot that the Ravens were in first place despite their garbage defense until Lamar got his bone bruise on his ankle, and their backup lost the remaining games.

The Ravens defense has always been good, the difference in the Lamar Jackson era is that the offense is also good. The Ravens D was very good from 2013-2017 and they only made the playoffs once and were 40-40 before Lamar. With Lamar at starter they are 58-19.

Not sure why praising the Ravens D takes away from any of Lamar's offensive accomplishments. A good D doesn't necessarily lead to wins. The Jets had the 3rd best D last year according to DVOA and sucked as a team.

Nothing wrong with being a hater, just try to back it up with intelligent analysis.