warfelg Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, El Ramster said: those guys drafted their guys and made established players. Mike has yet to that. He’s had 10+ years to draft Ben’s Bathroomburgers replacement. And Kevin Colbert played a part into that no? FWIW I believe Colbert was very overrated especially late in his career as his decision making in the draft got worse. Late in his career many things seemed to be about extending Ben’s career via skill players than think about the next generation until Ben was gone. Of course Ben didn’t help that when he cried to high heaven when Rudolph was drafted to be a potential heir apparent. (Which by the way there’s also a story that a scout thinks Colbert decided to draft Rudolph based on watching one game). Edited June 13 by warfelg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 11 minutes ago, warfelg said: And Kevin Colbert played a part into that no? FWIW I believe Colbert was very overrated especially late in his career as his decision making in the draft got worse. Late in his career many things seemed to be about extending Ben’s career via skill players than think about the next generation until Ben was gone. Of course Ben didn’t help that when he cried to high heaven when Rudolph was drafted to be a potential heir apparent. (Which by the way there’s also a story that a scout thinks Colbert decided to draft Rudolph based on watching one game). Kevin Colbert was garbage his last 5-6 years and in fact just 4 players from 2011 to 2020 are on this roster. Cam Heyward, TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, and Cam Sutton (who left and came back but wouldn't be here if Det didn't release) The jury is still very much out on the 2021 and 2022 class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, warfelg said: Many of those guys that have had issues had maturity/attitude as a negative on their scouting report. Colbert was a really strict “our board is our board” guys and it did mean taking a guy with personality issues if their skills put them that high. I'm not gonna pretend I know the inner workings of the Steelers organization better than you do but I find it hard to believe Tomlin has been there for 20 years and doesn't have a significant amount of say in the guys drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 17 minutes ago, StatKing said: I'm not gonna pretend I know the inner workings of the Steelers organization better than you do but I find it hard to believe Tomlin has been there for 20 years and doesn't have a significant amount of say in the guys drafted. They continually say that it’s a group effort between Art Rooney, Colbert (now Khan), and Tomlin. If Tomlin and Colbert were split, Art acts as the tie breaker. There were reports a couple of seasons, really the strongest in Mahomes year, that Tomlin has been really enamored with a QB. I know they scouted Lamar Jackson heavily. Jalen Hurts said he thought the Steelers were going to draft him (we traded up to 49 and took Claypool while Hurts went 52). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 11 hours ago, 43M said: I always see outside fans defend Tomlin because he never has a losing season, and fans say things like "you could do worse". While I agree you could do worse, the question is...at what point is what Tomlin does not enough? The ultimate goal of every team is to win championships. If you have a coach who can always get you to a certain point but never over the hump....how long until you say "okay, we have to chance it and try another coach"? Sure, you may go backwards, but when you are spinning tires year after year and not making the changes to move forward, that seems even worse. Seriously...if 3 years from now, the Steelers have two more playoff APPEARANCES and maybe one more playoff WIN....are people going to be singing the same tune? That Tomlin should get ANOTHER extension simply because he is good enough to get the Steelers to .500 every year with the occasional unspectacular playoff appearance? Again....when is that not enough? Or do we just continue blaming everyone EXCEPT Tomlin for the Steelers shortcomings? And no, I do not hate Tomlin or even dislike him. I spent years defending the guy, but at a certain point, you have to accept the reality of the situation. I don't blame Tomlin for everything, but Im getting tired of seeing people acting like he doesnt have a major hand in this teams failures over the last 10+ years. The constant 9-win seasons leave Pittsburgh in a situation where they're not bad enough to tank but also not good enough to truly compete. If that's really the best he can do now, then it's time to leave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KManX89 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Well-deserved. When you’ve never had a losing season despite playing in a tough division and not always having the best of talent at skill positions, I think you’ve made your mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 15 hours ago, Soggust said: But he has gotten over the hump lol. In his 2nd year, 15 years ago, with Cowhers roster and Dlck LeBeau running an all time elite defense. Tomlin was just along for the ride at that point. 2010 we got there, but largely the same story. 15 hours ago, Soggust said: Yes because many folks don’t have this a “rings culture” perspective around a stat that isn’t even rings (Playoff wins) Honestly not sure what you're saying here. 15 hours ago, Soggust said: How much have the Steelers “failed” in the last 10 years? You do realize "failures" isnt simply measured in losing seasons, right? 15 hours ago, Soggust said: Since 2014, the Steelers have the SECOND BEST winning percentage in football. Again....at what point is REGULAR season success alone not enough? Losing early the same, ugly way in the playoffs every single year doesn't exactly inspire confidence. 15 hours ago, Soggust said: Sure, they don’t have a ring in that span, but only 6 teams do. So, should we have expected one? I should have clarified this one better. I am not expecting the Steelers to win a ring every year. In fact, my issue isnt that we haven't won championships....its the fact that every year we have the same issues under Tomlin, and all he has done is spin tires for the better part of the last decade. Even when we had pretty talented rosters in the mid-late 2010s, we regularly played below He hasn't grown much as a coach and the team has suffered as a result. 15 hours ago, Soggust said: Well, idk the John Nash equilibrium would suggest that, in a vacuum, a team is supposed to win 1 every 32 years, so seems he’s ahead of schedule there as well. Let me know when Tomlin does anything in the playoffs without Cowhers roster and LeBeau holding his hand. 15 hours ago, Soggust said: But I think this is the part where you tell me Pittsburgh isn’t like the other plebeian cities and has a higher standard etc . Has nothing to do with that....although Tomlin himself would probably say that. Has alot more to do with this team being in a steady decline for over a decade and the fact the Tomlin has grown very little as a coach during his time in Pittsburgh and alot of his shortcomings have held this team back. But its all good. I know you dont watch the Steelers much outside of ESPN highlights and the occasional prime time game, so I dont expect you to know much about Tomlin besides his win/loss record and the puff pieces the mainstream sports media does about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 20 minutes ago, 43M said: In his 2nd year, 15 years ago, with Cowhers roster and Dlck LeBeau running an all time elite defense. Tomlin was just along for the ride at that point. 2010 we got there, but largely the same story. Honestly not sure what you're saying here. You do realize "failures" isnt simply measured in losing seasons, right? Again....at what point is REGULAR season success alone not enough? Losing early the same, ugly way in the playoffs every single year doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I should have clarified this one better. I am not expecting the Steelers to win a ring every year. In fact, my issue isnt that we haven't won championships....its the fact that every year we have the same issues under Tomlin, and all he has done is spin tires for the better part of the last decade. Even when we had pretty talented rosters in the mid-late 2010s, we regularly played below He hasn't grown much as a coach and the team has suffered as a result. Let me know when Tomlin does anything in the playoffs without Cowhers roster and LeBeau holding his hand. Has nothing to do with that....although Tomlin himself would probably say that. Has alot more to do with this team being in a steady decline for over a decade and the fact the Tomlin has grown very little as a coach during his time in Pittsburgh and alot of his shortcomings have held this team back. But its all good. I know you dont watch the Steelers much outside of ESPN highlights and the occasional prime time game, so I dont expect you to know much about Tomlin besides his win/loss record and the puff pieces the mainstream sports media does about him. Wait so you don’t care that he hasn’t won championships (recently), but the issue is that he hasn’t won playoff games (recently)? Brother, I will never understand your perspective on this or the obsession people have with playoff wins, so I’ll just agree to disagree as always. And that’s probably fine because no one is apparently allowed to have an opposing take with you unless they have an avatar to match. Which doesn’t even make sense because, by that logic, you have no frame of reference to compare Tomlin because you haven’t watched enough of the other 31 coaches in the league. That’s why we use stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 13 hours ago, StatKing said: Because Elway is the franchise? Almost all of the Broncos success can be tied to Elway in one way or another. As a player, but not as an executive. He is one of the worst GM's ever: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeBlitz Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 I find it hilarious non-Pittsburgh fans are way quicker to defend Tomlin than Pittsburgh fans are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 3 hours ago, WeBlitz said: I find it hilarious non-Pittsburgh fans are way quicker to defend Tomlin than Pittsburgh fans are. Seems easier to be unbiased and look at the whole picture when you haven’t had your heart broken. It’s the same reason we have 10 pages of people bashing Trevor Lawrence instead of just accepting Jags fans position that he’s an elite QB whose stats are only down because of his support and situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 57 minutes ago, Soggust said: Seems easier to be unbiased and look at the whole picture when you haven’t had your heart broken. It’s the same reason we have 10 pages of people bashing Trevor Lawrence instead of just accepting Jags fans position that he’s an elite QB whose stats are only down because of his support and situation. There’s also, from what I’ve seen, a huge discrepancy between how fans and non-fans see the roster in terms of talent. Fans seem to see every roster since the Cowher era it seems as able to make noise in the playoffs while outsiders tend to see it as .500 if we’re lucky. So when you think the roster is that good of course it’s been a bunch of disappointments. When you think lucky to be .500 you see making the playoffs as an accomplishment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 14 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: As a player, but not as an executive. He is one of the worst GM's ever: Does 2015 not count? Edited June 14 by StatKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 I'm sure this topic has had lots of strong nuanced responses without any bad or hyperbolic takes at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 On 6/10/2024 at 8:14 PM, Danger said: Exactly...? Look at the Steelers the last handful of years sans Pickett Have you even watched the Steelers the last few years? The last four Colbert drafts were absolutely terrible and devoid of much talent. Tomlin strapped together a bunch of JAGs with TJ Watt, Cam Heyward, and Minkah Fitzpatrick as bandaids to winning records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.