BackinBlack Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Raiders closed camp with a walkthrough on the beach right by my place last night. Only caught the end, but I will say, this team is very tight. They believe in each other, and it seems the d knows they have to carry us. I think it’ll be a fun season watching this D play. They seem hungry. need to start season strong, cause starting 0-3 or whatever will kill those vibes. Starting with a win on the road, against division rivals will only help the bond. I can’t wait for week 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 3 minutes ago, Jerry said: This current argument going on in this thread is purely based upon speculation. Crazy. I think @big_palooka is right though. Other teams didn't want to trade their pick. This draft was unlike any previous draft before it, with 6 QBs going in the first 12 picks. I doubt anyone would trade with us unless we were willing to give up the farm, the house, the dog, etc. Also, I agree with @Frankie2Gunz that 2-3 of the top 6 QBs will probably bust or end up being mediocre at best. I don't think we really lost out in the long run. Bowers has the potential to be a 5-10x pro bowler for us. One of the few blue-chip prospects in the entire draft. When it comes to our 2024 draft class, I currently regret nothing. The Jets were clearly open to trading their pick. How do I know this? They did.... Are you telling me that had we offered 3+ 1st's to Atl. to trade up they would have said no? They would be completely foolish to not accept that trade. What would have been more foolish is to offer that but you get my point. We didn't even attempt to move up and potentially could have move to 10 without offering a boatload of picks. We didn't and are wasting another season with bums playing the most important position in football. When was the last time a 1st round, top 15 pick TE posed good value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 12 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: When was the last time a 1st round, top 15 pick TE posed good value? well to be fair, the last 2 dominate NFL teams, Patriots and KC have had dominate TEs. They werent top 15 picks, but looking back they 100% would of been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 27 minutes ago, Jerry said: This current argument going on in this thread is purely based upon speculation. Crazy. I think @big_palooka is right though. Other teams didn't want to trade their pick. This draft was unlike any previous draft before it, with 6 QBs going in the first 12 picks. I doubt anyone would trade with us unless we were willing to give up the farm, the house, the dog, etc. Also, I agree with @Frankie2Gunz that 2-3 of the top 6 QBs will probably bust or end up being mediocre at best. I don't think we really lost out in the long run. Bowers has the potential to be a 5-10x pro bowler for us. One of the few blue-chip prospects in the entire draft. When it comes to our 2024 draft class, I currently regret nothing. Same. And am happy they didn't panic to draft a QB. Penix and Nix had no business going in the top 12 picks. The QB market was desperate and there will be regret from some of these teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said: The Jets were clearly open to trading their pick. How do I know this? They did.... Are you telling me that had we offered 3+ 1st's to Atl. to trade up they would have said no? They would be completely foolish to not accept that trade. What would have been more foolish is to offer that but you get my point. We didn't even attempt to move up and potentially could have move to 10 without offering a boatload of picks. We didn't and are wasting another season with bums playing the most important position in football. When was the last time a 1st round, top 15 pick TE posed good value? You're pretty much answering your own argument. No team taking a QB in the first round was willing to accept a reasonable trade. I'm sure the 3+ 1sts was what they were all asking for. And like you said, it would have been more foolish to offer that for a QB with a long injury history. Each of his four seasons at Indiana was ended by injury – ACL tear, right (non-throwing) shoulder injury, a second ACL tear of the same (right) knee and left shoulder injury. (copied and pasted from Google) As for you knowing about the Jets and what they were willing to trade, they dropped down one spot while most likely fully knowing they were still going to end up drafting the player they wanted while obtaining a 4th and 5th round pick. If they dropped 3 spots, they may have lost the player they wanted the most. It was literally a non-risk, all-reward trade for them. As for the last time a 1st round, top 15 TE posed good value, the best was arguably Vernon Davis. I honestly think Bowers is going to be a much better player in the NFL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 16 minutes ago, Jerry said: You're pretty much answering your own argument. No team taking a QB in the first round was willing to accept a reasonable trade. I'm sure the 3+ 1sts was what they were all asking for. And like you said, it would have been more foolish to offer that for a QB with a long injury history. Each of his four seasons at Indiana was ended by injury – ACL tear, right (non-throwing) shoulder injury, a second ACL tear of the same (right) knee and left shoulder injury. (copied and pasted from Google) As for you knowing about the Jets and what they were willing to trade, they dropped down one spot while most likely fully knowing they were still going to end up drafting the player they wanted while obtaining a 4th and 5th round pick. If they dropped 3 spots, they may have lost the player they wanted the most. It was literally a non-risk, all-reward trade for them. As for the last time a 1st round, top 15 TE posed good value, the best was arguably Vernon Davis. I honestly think Bowers is going to be a much better player in the NFL. I forgot to mention, I wasn't much of a fan of JJ McCarthy. He's too much of an unknown. His team was literally carried by its running game and defense. At least that's how I view him. I think Bowers is much more of a sure thing than JJ McCarthy. If I were to bet on which of those two would make the pro bowl first, and more times in general, I would bet on Bowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just listened to the Hondo podcast (so take it for what it’s worth) and he was listing a few players who maybe didn’t have the best camp: Sam Webb CB, didn’t really step up whilst Hobbs, Jones and Bennett apparently did. Not a big deal but thought he might have been in the mix for backup CB Amari Burney LB, been very quiet after flashing some potential last year, seems like Eichenberg might have stolen a march here. Bit disappointing as he did show some signs last year. Chris Smith S, was anonymous last year despite most thinking he could be a bit of a steal. With Pola Mao and Trey Taylor flashing he’ll struggle to make the team which is disappointing. JPJ OG, simply hasn’t been fit which is a bit worrisome as he was a high pick and highly touted. Id also add: Tyree Wilson DE, didn’t hear anything all camp apart from a couple alleged sacks the last couple days. Not going to say bust just yet but I was hoping to hear so much more and more regularly, I’ll be watching him very closely in pre season. Thayer Munford RT, most expected him to solidify the RT spot and take a step forward from last season. Looks like Glaze is genuinely in with a shout though, now that may be as he’s done so well but that still is somewhat disappointing for Thayer. All QBs, we weren’t expecting fireworks but neither of Minshew or O’Connell really separated themselves and they seemed to both struggle as expected. Unfortunately, none of the other contenders such as Brown or Bradley really had much positive press either. Looks like what we expected really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, BackinBlack said: Raiders closed camp with a walkthrough on the beach right by my place last night. Only caught the end, but I will say, this team is very tight. They believe in each other, and it seems the d knows they have to carry us. I think it’ll be a fun season watching this D play. They seem hungry. need to start season strong, cause starting 0-3 or whatever will kill those vibes. Starting with a win on the road, against division rivals will only help the bond. I can’t wait for week 1 I should have stopped by. I work like 10 minutes away from Costa Mesa in Irvine near John Wayne airport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 5 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: I should have stopped by. I work like 10 minutes away from Costa Mesa in Irvine near John Wayne airport it was pretty cool. Very low key and secretive. Right in HB, pch and beach. Players signed some autographs after but there were a lot of kids and i didnt want to be the guy to step in front of kids for an autograph, sad to say, it was definitely happening lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: We've been waiting since Rich Gannon left. You act like Carr brought something different, he didn't. Maybe another win or 2 but who cares? Carr was an average QB not worth the contract. They were going nowhere with him or without him. At least without him, the emphasis becomes identifying the next QB instead of regurgitating the same mid results season after season. If we sign Carr to the same contract that the Saints sign them to, we would be losing just about every pending free agent on the team. The NFL with a had a signing bonanza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: The Jets were clearly open to trading their pick. How do I know this? They did.... Are you telling me that had we offered 3+ 1st's to Atl. to trade up they would have said no? They would be completely foolish to not accept that trade. What would have been more foolish is to offer that but you get my point. We didn't even attempt to move up and potentially could have move to 10 without offering a boatload of picks. We didn't and are wasting another season with bums playing the most important position in football. When was the last time a 1st round, top 15 pick TE posed good value? I literally posted Telesco's quote that they explored it. They would not have been able to outbid the Vikings without "mortgaging the future" as you like to say. You still think Bowers is purely a TE. I can't help you. Moving on..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 22 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Just listened to the Hondo podcast (so take it for what it’s worth) and he was listing a few players who maybe didn’t have the best camp: Sam Webb CB, didn’t really step up whilst Hobbs, Jones and Bennett apparently did. Not a big deal but thought he might have been in the mix for backup CB Amari Burney LB, been very quiet after flashing some potential last year, seems like Eichenberg might have stolen a march here. Bit disappointing as he did show some signs last year. Chris Smith S, was anonymous last year despite most thinking he could be a bit of a steal. With Pola Mao and Trey Taylor flashing he’ll struggle to make the team which is disappointing. JPJ OG, simply hasn’t been fit which is a bit worrisome as he was a high pick and highly touted. Id also add: Tyree Wilson DE, didn’t hear anything all camp apart from a couple alleged sacks the last couple days. Not going to say bust just yet but I was hoping to hear so much more and more regularly, I’ll be watching him very closely in pre season. Thayer Munford RT, most expected him to solidify the RT spot and take a step forward from last season. Looks like Glaze is genuinely in with a shout though, now that may be as he’s done so well but that still is somewhat disappointing for Thayer. All QBs, we weren’t expecting fireworks but neither of Minshew or O’Connell really separated themselves and they seemed to both struggle as expected. Unfortunately, none of the other contenders such as Brown or Bradley really had much positive press either. Looks like what we expected really. Chris Smith just doesn't have the athletic profile apparently. Really disappointing as he was a rock for Georgia and you'd hope it translated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 58 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Chris Smith just doesn't have the athletic profile apparently. Really disappointing as he was a rock for Georgia and you'd hope it translated. Yeh, I was hoping he’d be able to mitigate against that with some high IQ play and recognition giving him a yard extra of range back there but it seems he’s simply not quite up to it. Shame, I liked him asa prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 50 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Yeh, I was hoping he’d be able to mitigate against that with some high IQ play and recognition giving him a yard extra of range back there but it seems he’s simply not quite up to it. Shame, I liked him asa prospect. He’s definitely gonna get cut. Drafted by previous regime. Palo-Mao, Jaydon Grant and Taylor apparently had better camps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 10 hours ago, big_palooka said: lol Maybe in 10 years we will finally be aggressive addressing the QB spot. We have by far the worst qb room in the nfl again though and we will likely be mid because of it. Mark reportedly hired Telesco because he loved his plan at QB. That plan was Minshew / AOC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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