NYRaider Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 5 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Not just a upgrade tho Lololol you’re being too nice 🍻Lololol Jimmy has super bowl rings, super bowl appearances, playoff dubs, what does Carr have again? All the AP lovers need him to be a GOAT or that's all blowing up in your face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: I knew Pitts was gonna suck. I think that Bowers is a completely different player. And for the record even knowing what I know now if I was in the raiders position this year I would've drafted Bowers. The mistake was not taking a flyer on some of these later round guys there was absolutely no risk in taking. What production does Bowers need to post as a rookie or average at the 5 year mark for the pick to be considered good value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 22 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I don't give a **** what type of label you want to put on Bowers or where he lines up. He can line up on Mars for all I care. I want elite production, nothing more, nothing less. As a top 15 pick he needs to produce at an elite level early on. BB appears to be a good prospect but so was Pitts who was also supposed to revolutionize the TE position. That hasn't aged well... I didn’t really like Pitts as a prospect. I thought his athleticism was super exaggerated. Also we never got real athletic testing numbers because the combine was cancelled that year. Pro Days are not worth anything. Same reason I was lukewarm on Mayer. He was an average athlete both on tape and by athletic testing numbers, even if he is a beast. We don’t have Bowers testing numbers and it scares me. He definitely looks more athletic than Mayer and Pitts though, for sure. But I have a hard time believing he’s the next Kittle, Kelce, McBride, etc. I think Bowers will be good but I kind of think he’ll fall into the second tier of TE’s like the Njoku’s, Friermuth’s, etc. Although the best of that tier and a Top 8-9 TE in the league. That would make him a bad pick in the Middle of the 1st. Good pick in the Early 2nd. But I hope I’m wrong and he ends up the best TE in the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said: I didn’t really like Pitts as a prospect. I thought his athleticism was super exaggerated. Also we never got real athletic testing numbers because the combine was cancelled that year. Pro Days are not worth anything. Same reason I was lukewarm on Mayer. He was an average athlete both on tape and by athletic testing numbers, even if he is a beast. We don’t have Bowers testing numbers and it scares me. He definitely looks more athletic than Mayer and Pitts though, for sure. But I have a hard time believing he’s the next Kittle, Kelce, McBride, etc. I think Bowers will be good but I kind of think he’ll fall into the second tier of TE’s like the Njoku’s, Friermuth’s, etc. Although the best of that tier and a Top 8-9 TE in the league. That would make him a bad pick in the Middle of the 1st. Good pick in the Early 2nd. But I hope I’m wrong and he ends up the best TE in the NFL. I have been saying since the pick was made that he needs to produce at an elite level for the pick to pose good value. Over the last 5 seasons 1 TE has consistently posted elite numbers and that is Travis Kelce. No top 15 TE has posed good value since Tony G was selected in 1997. I agree on Mayer, I don't think he is some world beater but he can be sufficient as a blocker and receiver. If he played a full season I would expect production somewhere around 650 and 4. Bowers needs to be significantly better than that for the pick to make sense. If he does fall into the Njoku or Friermuth tier after 3 years then I would consider the pick to be not great value at pick 13 but as you point out in the 2nd/3rd I would have been much happier with that type of production. The problem is we already had Mayer who we spent a 2nd rounder on last year and had holes at multiple key positions. QB, OT and CB were all major needs and we took a TE. He better be a stud who produces elite numbers for the pick to pose good value. The chance was there to make a move for JJ and we didn't even try when QB was a much greater need than TE. Now we're stuck with two bum QB’s on arguably the strongest roster we have had in the last 20 years. Edited August 11 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: What production does Bowers need to post as a rookie or average at the 5 year mark for the pick to be considered good value? I'm thinking he needs to become an all pro at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 15 hours ago, NYRaider said: Do you think Minshew / AOC are good / capable NFL starters? I think both are better than Jimmy G who you clamoured for and thought was the answer lol. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 3 hours ago, Dessie said: I think both are better than Jimmy G who you clamoured for and thought was the answer lol. Jimmy G's best years in the league trump anything that either one of them has or ever will do in their career. He has more Super Bowl apperances than Minshew / AOC / Carr have playoff wins combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 (edited) 17 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Jimmy G's best years in the league trump anything that either one of them has or ever will do in their career. He has more Super Bowl apperances than Minshew / AOC / Carr have playoff wins combined. Still defending Jimmy G lol. All about now, is he better than both now, no. Jimmy G has the same number of SB Bowl appearances and playoff wins for the Raiders as Carr. Jimmy G was way worse for the Raiders than Carr ever was. Head yourself over to the Rams forum as you obviously want to support Jimmy rather than the Raiders. Edited August 11 by Dessie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, Dessie said: Still defending Jimmy G lol. All about now, is he better than both now, no. Jimmy G has the same number of SB Bowl appearances and playoff wins for the Raiders as Carr. Jimmy G was way worse for the Raiders than Carr ever was. Head yourself over to the Rams forum as you obviously want to support Jimmy rather than the Raiders. You're the one that brought up Jimmy G. I've said throughout the offseason that Minshew and AOC are both bottom tier starters, instead of bringing up any evidence to disprove that, you immediately bring up Jimmy G, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: You're the one that brought up Jimmy G. I've said throughout the offseason that Minshew and AOC are both bottom tier starters, instead of bringing up any evidence to disprove that, you immediately bring up Jimmy G, lol. As I said before your take should be taken in perspective given your take on Jimmy G, which was so bad and on Clelin Ferrell. You decided to try and justify (and;fail) your take on Jimmy G lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 4 minutes ago, Dessie said: As I said before your take should be taken in perspective given your take on Jimmy G, which was so bad and on Clelin Ferrell. You decided to try and justify (and;fail) your take on Jimmy G lol. You can only think of two bad takes I've made out of 40,000+ posts, meaning I'm 39,998 in the positive baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 59 minutes ago, NYRaider said: You can only think of two bad takes I've made out of 40,000+ posts, meaning I'm 39,998 in the positive baby. At least 10,000 of those posts were calling Jimmy the Goat. I like a lot of your takes… but ultimately, i think it’s fair for people to question your QB takes. All you care about is W/L… and ultimately it’s a team game. You giving jimmy props for getting a Ring as a back up is proof enough… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, BackinBlack said: At least 10,000 of those posts were calling Jimmy the Goat. I like a lot of your takes… but ultimately, i think it’s fair for people to question your QB takes. All you care about is W/L… and ultimately it’s a team game. You giving jimmy props for getting a Ring as a back up is proof enough… Jimmy G had some good years in SF lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: You can only think of two bad takes I've made out of 40,000+ posts, meaning I'm 39,998 in the positive baby. This wasn't one of your best takes to be honest dude: I would like to retract all of my negative statements throughout the years. This dude is bringing us a Super Bowl. Apologize to join the list. Negativity Retracters list NYRaider Taken from the 'I'm Sorry Dave Ziegler' thread you started 🤔 It's all good though.............I wanted JaMarcus Russell for heavens sake 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 32 minutes ago, Darbsk said: This wasn't one of your best takes to be honest dude: I would like to retract all of my negative statements throughout the years. This dude is bringing us a Super Bowl. Apologize to join the list. Negativity Retracters list NYRaider Taken from the 'I'm Sorry Dave Ziegler' thread you started 🤔 It's all good though.............I wanted JaMarcus Russell for heavens sake 😀 We can’t just have some fun with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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