2024 Eagles Training Camp

[EAGLES3658]

On 8/6/2024 at 9:40 AM, Shalodeep said:

I would be cautiously optimistic due to the offensive scheme literally being designed to beat up on vics defense and also has all pros to do so. Not every team runs that scheme and has such weak lbs and pass rush to beat up on. I think he is going to have a good season personally, but we've seen training camp heroes before. Either way, let's go birds 

Quite frankly, Hurts was still a good player last season despite a disgusting scheme (or whatever you would call that mess). I see no reason to not think he will be very good under a competent play caller. 

[Broadway Joe]

48 minutes ago, IrishHooligan00 said:

What OC who has a chance had a HC gig, Especially when you have been trying for HC gigs the last 3 Coaching Cycles is going to turn down becoming a HC? Also If I recall, A team can't block OC/DC from becoming HCs only Positional Coaches going elsewhere or am I wrong? 

No, they can't they just offer more money for them to stay. The Cowboys did with Jason Garrett when he was the OC, he ended up making more than Wade Phillips at the time. 

It isn't the best thing to do, but such is the situation we find ourselves in. We didn't fire Sirianni when we should have and it is looking more of a mistake as time passes. But also the Eagles are an unattractive place for coaches without adding firing a HC a year removed from a SB appearance and three straight playoff seasons.

[Nabbs4u]

Still belive most of you are seriously underestimating how well like and respected Nick Sirianni is within that building as HC. By players, by the coaching staff, by the FO.

Does it suck losing OC and DC and FO personnel year after year, absolutely.  That's the cost of doing buisness when your Franchise is having success. No one was poaching coaches away from NYG, Chicago, Carolina and Washington last season, for a reason.

You all want to blame Nick for last years collapse as HC, fine! He is or was responsible for the Johnson and Desai hiring,  probably responsible for making Patricia DC (I believe that was Howie). All valid points.

Nick's "system" worked just fine under Stiechen who's proven to be competent play caller and came within a play of winning the SB! Top 3 offense in the NFL in 2022. MVP candidate in Hurts.

Gannon's defense while it had its flaws almost broke the single season Sack record and was a top 5 defensive unit. Once again a play away from a SB ring.

A year later with almost every returning starter on offense returning Johnson's offense looked like that? Completely lost at times, inefficient, incapable of schematically picking up a blitz?? Desai at least lost 6 Starters from that SB defense so there was cause for concern going into that season but he too seemed absolutely lost? Couldn't adapt in game, players out of positions, lost. If that doesn't scream a coordinator issue,  I don't know what does?

It was clear they wanted to hire Vic last season but Gannon intentionally did what he did , screwed that up  Fangio was a man of his word and went Miami despite really wanting the Eagles job in 2023. I also believe Moore was probably a target but was never going straight from Dallas to Philly in 2023 as a OC because of the optics.

I get Sirianni is no longer calling plays. Having a HC play caller is ideal. Keeps continuity and stability on that side of the ball and most times within the staff.

I'd argue it is also allowing these Coordinators to concentrate on just thier jobs too. They have no other responsibilities. Offense and Defense, that's it. Niether have the responsibility of also being HC and everything that entails. Nick can overlooked all aspects of this team offense,  defense, ST. I honestly don't believe that's a bad thing assuming you made the right hirings in the first place!!! We didn't last season. Whether that was on Nick or Howie 🤷‍♂️.

It's clear to me at least Brian was overwhelmed as a 1st time NFL play caller last year. Wanted to continue being Jalen's life long friend/buddy rather then his OC/Coach.

They hoped as a Fangio deciple Desai could step in bring those philosophies, bring that fire. He failed miserably in all aspects. 

Let's see what Moore and Fangio do as competent and proven play callers in 2024 before worrying about who's moving on, should get fired, should get promoted. 

If this team remotely comes close let alone wins it all, Sirianni is going nowhere. Nor should he. Even at the expense of losing Kellen to a HC job elsewhere. This will be Vic's last job IMO.

 

[Shalodeep]

2 hours ago, EAGLES3658 said:

Quite frankly, Hurts was still a good player last season despite a disgusting scheme (or whatever you would call that mess). I see no reason to not think he will be very good under a competent play caller. 

Goodish. His best stat is wins honestly.  When that isn't his main argument,  he is outside the top ten in about every passing stat last year and most rushing tds are tush push related.  Not saying he isn't good to great, saying he wasn't last year

[Shalodeep]

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Goodish. His best stat is wins honestly.  When that isn't his main argument,  he is outside the top ten in about every passing stat last year and most rushing tds are tush push related.  Not saying he isn't good to great, saying he wasn't last year

Especially not considering the talent around him

[IrishHooligan00]

29 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

 

It's clear to me at least Brian was overwhelmed as a 1st time NFL play caller last year. Wanted to continue being Jalen's life long friend/buddy rather then his OC/Coach.

 

 

So are we ignoring the fact that Hurts and BJ were on the same page and Sirianni was the one trying to override everything? It was even stated in the articles that came out. Johnson was the scape goat clear as day. 

Regardless however if you have a fracture between Hurts and Sirianni, That is a HUGE issue. No matter how many times its trying to be downplayed. 

 

[CasperX22]

22 minutes ago, IrishHooligan00 said:

So are we ignoring the fact that Hurts and BJ were on the same page and Sirianni was the one trying to override everything? It was even stated in the articles that came out. Johnson was the scape goat clear as day. 

Regardless however if you have a fracture between Hurts and Sirianni, That is a HUGE issue. No matter how many times its trying to be downplayed. 

 

Do you think the FQB undermining the coach and drawing up school yard plays in the huddle is a good look? This is a stupid argument all the way around.  Let's worry about whether the Eagles are any good this year and leave last year as far in our memories as possible.

[Nabbs4u]

26 minutes ago, IrishHooligan00 said:

So are we ignoring the fact that Hurts and BJ were on the same page and Sirianni was the one trying to override everything? It was even stated in the articles that came out. Johnson was the scape goat clear as day. 

Regardless however if you have a fracture between Hurts and Sirianni, That is a HUGE issue. No matter how many times its trying to be downplayed. 

 

Were Hurts and BJ on the same page or are you assuming? Why was Jalen changing so many play calls on the field, calling audible seemingly at will almost every series? 

BJ was the play caller, not Nick. Now if Sirianni  didn't like a series of play calls that resulted in 3 and outs, not getting first downs, ending in a TO, why shouldn't he address and try to correct it? Point out the mistakes,  call this instead? It's his offense?

I think the masses are overreacting to this supposed fracture between the two. There has been and continues to be no bigger Jalen Hurts supporter and advocate then Nick Sirianni. 

Any residual hard feelings Jalen might or might not have about BJ getting fired is to be expected. That's why they always tell people, "You dont hire family"! Yes Brian was basically family.

Winning cures all. If we are, no one will say Jack. All is great in the world!  If we aren't,  like last seasons collapse rumors and innuendos will run ramped. Especially after what we now know was a 10-1 mirage of a start.

Edited August 9 by Nabbs4u

[Danger]

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

Goodish. His best stat is wins honestly.  When that isn't his main argument,  he is outside the top ten in about every passing stat last year and most rushing tds are tush push related.  Not saying he isn't good to great, saying he wasn't last year

I really can't stress enough how terrible our offensive scheme was last year whether that's because of Brian Johnson or Nick, or both even, but ANYTHING is an improvement over that and we should anticipate better this year by default simply through not being utterly incompetent and winning in pure talent.

[CasperX22]

39 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Were Hurts and BJ on the same page or are you assuming? Why was Jalen changing so many play calls on the field, calling audible seemingly at will almost every series? 

BJ was the play caller, not Nick. Now if Sirianni  didn't like a series of play calls that resulted in 3 and outs, not getting first downs, ending in a TO, why shouldn't he address and try to correct it? Point out the mistakes,  call this instead? It's his offense?

I think the masses are overreacting to this supposed fracture between the two. There has been and continues to be no bigger Jalen Hurts supporter and advocate then Nick Sirianni. 

Any residual hard feelings Jalen might or might not have about BJ getting fired is to be expected. That's why they always tell people, "You dont hire family"! Yes Brian was basically family.

Winning cures all. If we are, no one will say Jack. All is great in the world!  If we aren't,  like last seasons collapse rumors and innuendos will run ramped. Especially after what we now know was a 10-1 mirage of a start.

He wasn't audibling.  He was changing plays in the huddle.  There's a distinct difference there.  Regardless of who is calling the plays Nick is the guy in charge.  Ultimately it's his head on the line.  

[CasperX22]

6 minutes ago, Danger said:

I really can't stress enough how terrible our offensive scheme was last year whether that's because of Brian Johnson or Nick, or both even, but ANYTHING is an improvement over that and we should anticipate better this year by default simply through not being utterly incompetent and winning in pure talent.

Agreed.  Nearly impossible to be worse.

[Shalodeep]

34 minutes ago, Danger said:

I really can't stress enough how terrible our offensive scheme was last year whether that's because of Brian Johnson or Nick, or both even, but ANYTHING is an improvement over that and we should anticipate better this year by default simply through not being utterly incompetent and winning in pure talent.

I can't stress how good the talent is around him lol I'm not saying Jalen is bad at all. At worst his what...10th best?  I'm saying I'm not jumping for joy until the season starts showing results. This scheme vs vics scheme is supposed to dominate so camp was meant to look like this. 

Edited August 9 by Shalodeep

[4for4PhillyFan]

2 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Still belive most of you are seriously underestimating how well like and respected Nick Sirianni is within that building as HC. By players, by the coaching staff, by the FO.

Does it suck losing OC and DC and FO personnel year after year, absolutely.  That's the cost of doing buisness when your Franchise is having success. No one was poaching coaches away from NYG, Chicago, Carolina and Washington last season, for a reason.

You all want to blame Nick for last years collapse as HC, fine! He is or was responsible for the Johnson and Desai hiring,  probably responsible for making Patricia DC (I believe that was Howie). All valid points.

Nick's "system" worked just fine under Stiechen who's proven to be competent play caller and came within a play of winning the SB! Top 3 offense in the NFL in 2022. MVP candidate in Hurts.

Gannon's defense while it had its flaws almost broke the single season Sack record and was a top 5 defensive unit. Once again a play away from a SB ring.

A year later with almost every returning starter on offense returning Johnson's offense looked like that? Completely lost at times, inefficient, incapable of schematically picking up a blitz?? Desai at least lost 6 Starters from that SB defense so there was cause for concern going into that season but he too seemed absolutely lost? Couldn't adapt in game, players out of positions, lost. If that doesn't scream a coordinator issue,  I don't know what does?

It was clear they wanted to hire Vic last season but Gannon intentionally did what he did , screwed that up  Fangio was a man of his word and went Miami despite really wanting the Eagles job in 2023. I also believe Moore was probably a target but was never going straight from Dallas to Philly in 2023 as a OC because of the optics.

I get Sirianni is no longer calling plays. Having a HC play caller is ideal. Keeps continuity and stability on that side of the ball and most times within the staff.

I'd argue it is also allowing these Coordinators to concentrate on just thier jobs too. They have no other responsibilities. Offense and Defense, that's it. Niether have the responsibility of also being HC and everything that entails. Nick can overlooked all aspects of this team offense,  defense, ST. I honestly don't believe that's a bad thing assuming you made the right hirings in the first place!!! We didn't last season. Whether that was on Nick or Howie 🤷‍♂️.

It's clear to me at least Brian was overwhelmed as a 1st time NFL play caller last year. Wanted to continue being Jalen's life long friend/buddy rather then his OC/Coach.

They hoped as a Fangio deciple Desai could step in bring those philosophies, bring that fire. He failed miserably in all aspects. 

Let's see what Moore and Fangio do as competent and proven play callers in 2024 before worrying about who's moving on, should get fired, should get promoted. 

If this team remotely comes close let alone wins it all, Sirianni is going nowhere. Nor should he. Even at the expense of losing Kellen to a HC job elsewhere. This will be Vic's last job IMO.

 

Nick’s “system” only started working when they moved play calling off of him and gave it to Steichen.   Then, Steichen leaves and what do we get?  Now again he wont have the play calling.  Nick was a “yes man” hire, I never liked the hire.  Still don’t.  Underwhelming head coaches make it to the SB with great rosters.  Bill Callahan, Jim Fassel, Sam Wyche…etc…..  The QB1 and WR1 went off script because they don’t respect the HC, but hey at least the HC is “liked”.  Yippee 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

6 hours ago, Broadway Joe said:

No one is spinning anything as a slight to the GM. Your just defensive of him apparently. 

I said I wish he could make more attractive for his OC to stay for an extra year if he were to get poached the following offseason, as it has happened before. But you don't also want to be the place where you don't let your own people grow. 

No need to defend Howie here. 

Almost what I said, but not outright blocking him. IIRC Detroit already convinced Ben Johnson to stay like a year ago. I don't think it's unheard of. 

 

Quote

If that's the case, I hope that for once Howie works in retaining an assistant coach, like the 49ers, Cowboys or Lions have done. It has always been weird to me how he never tried to.

In what world can you read this and not interpret it as a slight against Howie? I mean the entire premise is just completely incorrect as well, but I think I already handled that part.

What exactly would you like Howie to do to have kept Steichen around for example? As if it is even Howie's job to do that...

The Eagles have tried to keep their guys around as much as possible. It makes no sense to do otherwise. Look at what they have done with Stout. He has been given promotions and new titles consistently whenever it looked like he might leave. The problem is that there is nothing you can do to keep a coordinator from becoming a HC if they really desire that job. 

Ben Johnson has declined HC jobs in two straight offseasons. He is an enigma and a very clear aberration compared to the average NFL coordinator. The reality is that there are 32 HC jobs in the entire world and they all pay extremely well. These top OC and DC's are typically very ambitious and want to try to stamp their place in history. The idea that the GM should shoulder any blame for one of them taking a promotion just makes absolutely no sense.

So yes, what you are claiming is completely unheard of.

Edited August 9 by AZ_Eaglesfan

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

I think it is fair to say the Hurts acted improperly last year even if the coaching was terrible(which it clearly was). Hurts clearly lost faith in the coaching staff and I am guessing a large number of players did as well. That is obviously on the HC, but the freelancing and clear discontent is still unacceptable and was a large reason the team collapsed. Everyone involved is culpable for what happened last year. 

Would rather just look forward and hope the new schemes and coaches can fix the flaws last years team had.