Scoremore Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 4 hours ago, Brit Pack said: The cap numbers look good the dead cap ones don't. IF he stinks or does not progress as expected we are stuck with him. That is the issue I have with this contract. Too rich for too little game time It sucks but it is what it is. The market is the market. Love is going to be a superstar. He's a blend of Favre and Rodgers. Under immense pressure he's cool as a cucumber. No man Love is the real deal of that I have no doubt. QB salaries are out of hand they should cap it. Until then gotta pay them. He'll be leading the Pack to multiple Superbowls. Really at the end of the day that is all that matters. I'll add he's a pretty cool dude and the players love him. Just hope he doesn't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Let's say Love ****s the bed and we are bad. We are probably looking at a bad season, and you draft a new QB, who doesn't have to get paid until the Love contract is off the books. It is going to be fine. The Packers are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 5 hours ago, TransientTexan said: Maybe, maybe not. But any rework is more for KC’s cap benefit than to fix some sort of imagined underpayment of Mahomes that some fans seem to be believing. I see it as both. Mahomes should be clear cut highest earner but it needs to be kicked into years after he retires. Just have 3 dead years when he is done winning 7 superbowls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 4 hours ago, squire12 said: Didn't you stated you wished the love contract was more like the Hurts contract? Hurts got more guaranteed at signing and more guarantees overall when you actually read the details of the contract setup......yet you are here stating this isn't a good deal. It is truly perplexing. I believe you are smart enough not to be this dumb. Hurts signed a 5 year extension at $255 not a 4 year one, hence more guarantees and the ability to spread that Look at the dead cap hits and how easy it is for Philly to move off him or create a new deal by the end of 2026 Look at Hurts cap % for the first few years and when they go above 13% it is set that they'll negotiate a new deal Compare that to Love's deal When Love is at 13% of cap we can't negotiate a new deal as his remaining guarantees would be $65m, he has no need to negotiate. The main issue I have with the contract is the level of flexibility it brings, which is very little. You can't move base salaries, or create space as so much of it is To me it looks like it doesn't look like a great deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 5 hours ago, incognito_man said: I'm not sure how you're arriving at your conclusions. Jordan Love was the best QB in the NFL the second half of 2023. In his first year starting. After sitting behind a first ballot HOFer for 3 years. Why would anyone have expected anything less than highest contract of all time? It's illogical to have expected anything else. The contract is a bargain if anything. Didn't Lawrence just get similar money? Would you rather have Trevor Lawrence? Or Tua? Gotta keep up. NFL comes at ya fast! You guys sound like Love's agents in justifying this deal. There is no provision in this deal IF he does not continue at the blistering pace that he had during the final 10 games or so. To me not to have anything linked in this contract to future performance in the shape of option bonuses is criminal and basically the agents got what they wanted, we couldn't even get a five-year extension. Any negotiation is a game of poker and we folded far too quickly. The cards that the agents were playing with was 10 games or so of great performances and they parlayed that into this contract, where I don't see any concession Green Bay has got, this was a very one-sided deal. I don't think the Packers expected a hold-in from Love and basically by that time they couldn't/didn't want to dig their heels as it was too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 4 hours ago, Brit Pack said: I believe you are smart enough not to be this dumb. Hurts signed a 5 year extension at $255 not a 4 year one, hence more guarantees and the ability to spread that Look at the dead cap hits and how easy it is for Philly to move off him or create a new deal by the end of 2026 Look at Hurts cap % for the first few years and when they go above 13% it is set that they'll negotiate a new deal Compare that to Love's deal When Love is at 13% of cap we can't negotiate a new deal as his remaining guarantees would be $65m, he has no need to negotiate. The main issue I have with the contract is the level of flexibility it brings, which is very little. You can't move base salaries, or create space as so much of it is To me it looks like it doesn't look like a great deal I see we have moved off the guarantees and onto length. Yes they are a year different. Maybe look at the void years. Hurts has 4 void years Love has 3 void years Look at the cap hit in the first year of those void years. Hurts $97M. Love $34M Yet you want the Hurts contract still? Still perplexing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 The Brit's entire argument revolves around a fear that Love might not actually be good. It's not a fear I (or MLF or Gute) have, but with that being his issue, there is probably no talking him off the ledge. GB obviously sees Love as the franchise QB going forward, while Brit isn't there yet. Fair enough. Still doesn't make it a bad contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 hour ago, squire12 said: I see we have moved off the guarantees and onto length. Guarantees and length are connected as that is how much the guaranteed money gets spread out, you know this so I don't know why you are acting up about it. I'm assuming with Hurts that a new contract would be negotiated before you ever get to the void years. Before Love even gets to his void years he has a cap charge of $74m. Looking at Spotrac - Hurts potential out in year 5 of deal for $7.75m While there doesn't look like a potential out for Love at any real point. For both Love and Hurts having the void years are not ideal, but at least with Hurts there is far more flexibility at the beginning of the contract. What is perplexing is that you can't see that one contract structure gives much more flexibility. You probably understand these numbers better than me and you are so rigid in thinking that the Love deal is a good one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 hour ago, Mazrimiv said: The Brit's entire argument revolves around a fear that Love might not actually be good. It's not a fear I (or MLF or Gute) have, but with that being his issue, there is probably no talking him off the ledge. GB obviously sees Love as the franchise QB going forward, while Brit isn't there yet. Fair enough. Still doesn't make it a bad contract. I love how you overstate things. Ledges, scoring points. It's okay that we disagree!!!! This is not about Love and his play. This is whether this is a good contract or not. If you think it is a good contract tell me why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcv Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 9 minutes ago, Brit Pack said: I love how you overstate things. Ledges, scoring points. It's okay that we disagree!!!! This is not about Love and his play. This is whether this is a good contract or not. If you think it is a good contract tell me why? Because his play is good. Level of play and contracts go hand in hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 minute ago, Bcv said: Because his play is good. Level of play and contracts go hand in hand Yes they do. But also how contracts are structured, the length, how guarantees are earned, what are outs of a contract to protect a club, salary cap hits, potential times to restructure a contract to create space, potential times to create a new deal etc All of these are less to do with the play and in Love's case potential of play and more to do with the negotiation between the Packers and the agents. I can't see where this looks like a good deal for the Packers other than having Love under contract for the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 2 hours ago, Mazrimiv said: The Brit's entire argument revolves around a fear that Love might not actually be good. It's not a fear I (or MLF or Gute) have, but with that being his issue, there is probably no talking him off the ledge. GB obviously sees Love as the franchise QB going forward, while Brit isn't there yet. Fair enough. Still doesn't make it a bad contract. You can still think he's a franchise QB while also thinking it isn't a great contract team wise. His main argument makes a lot of sense, for better or worse we are stuck with Love and typically its not good business to stick yourself with a guy with absolutely no recourse to get out from under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 21 minutes ago, Brit Pack said: Yes they do. But also how contracts are structured, the length, how guarantees are earned, what are outs of a contract to protect a club, salary cap hits, potential times to restructure a contract to create space, potential times to create a new deal etc All of these are less to do with the play and in Love's case potential of play and more to do with the negotiation between the Packers and the agents. I can't see where this looks like a good deal for the Packers other than having Love under contract for the next 5 years. The only way to get a good QB that is also cheap is to get him playing well on his rookie deal. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/_/position/qb/sort/average/dir/desc You see a big time drop off in yearly average salary at 20, with Geno Smith. Every QB that is less than 25 million is either on a rookie contract or stinks on ice. Now, some of the higher paid QBs aren't good either. That is the risk that you have with contracts, and part of the beauty of the salary cap, so that if you make a mistake like that, you have to pay the price. If Love turns back into a pumpkin, the Packers are pretty boned. But you can say the same about any large contract for any team. Daniel Jones was overpaid, so now the Giants are in a predicament. Nobody is taking a team friendly deal. The fact that Mahomes is the 11th highest isn't because the players ahead of him are better, it is because they signed after he did. That is just how it works. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brit Pack said: I love how you overstate things. Ledges, scoring points. It's okay that we disagree!!!! This is not about Love and his play. This is whether this is a good contract or not. If you think it is a good contract tell me why? Hurts, Lawrence, Tua and Goff all got their money guaranteed for 3 years. If you look at signing bonus and guaranteed salary, here are the total guarantees. Hurts and Lawrence contracts were a year ago, and we all know the price of poker has gone way up. Hurts - 88 million guaranteed Lawrence - 72 million guaranteed Goff - 123 million guaranteed Tua - 118 million guaranteed Love - 109 million guaranteed Allen - 150 million guaranteed and he signed in 2021 Cousins - 90 million guaranteed, coming off an Achilles and being 36 years old. Watson - 229 million guaranteed and a cap number of 64 million the next three years. Edited July 29 by Old Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) This is one of those conversations that will be fun to go back and read a year from now. (much like the Love conversations from a year ago in NFL gen) Edited July 29 by Mazrimiv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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