MrOaktown_56 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 36 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: The guy has never taken an NFL snap and we have a 23 year old second rounder from last year on the roster that many were calling Baby Gronk last year. So yeah the pick needs to be defended and the bottom line is Bowers needs to produce at a high level. Period. I'm struggling to understand how Mayer and Bowers can't coexist. They barely play the same position. Mayer is a more traditional in-line TE, Bowers is a move guy with tons of YAC threat. This hurts Tre Tucker more than anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 8 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I'm struggling to understand how Mayer and Bowers can't coexist. They barely play the same position. Mayer is a more traditional in-line TE, Bowers is a move guy with tons of YAC threat. This hurts Tre Tucker more than anything. I'm struggling to understand how you can just assume that we will throw two TE's on the field and have them both produce at a high level? It has happened once in the history of the NFL if I remember correctly. Gronk and Hernandez and guess who they had throwing them the ball... Not Minchew lol Mayer is now a backup and will produce like one. Is your claim that Bowers is not a TE and we will be lining him up out wide or in the slot? If that is the case give me breakdown of how much you see him lining up in each spot? If you claim he will be lining up the majority of the time at WR then his production better warrant that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 13 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: We're comparing a kicker to a skill position player? This is a huge reach man. Kickers are people too lol Your stance and metrics in the prior post was that positional value doesn't matter just as long as the player contributes, elevates the team and earns a second contract. If those are the standards in which you deem a pick to be good value then Sebass must have been good value in your opinion. The only reason that wouldn't apply is that his position is one of less value. Is your claim there is no such thing as positional value or that positional value should not be factored in at all when making a draft selection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 28 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I'm struggling to understand how you can just assume that we will throw two TE's on the field and have them both produce at a high level? It has happened once in the history of the NFL if I remember correctly. Gronk and Hernandez and guess who they had throwing them the ball... Not Minchew lol Mayer is now a backup and will produce like one. Is your claim that Bowers is not a TE and we will be lining him up out wide or in the slot? If that is the case give me breakdown of how much you see him lining up in each spot? If you claim he will be lining up the majority of the time at WR then his production better warrant that. To be fair, this very thing was reported ad nauseam during raiders camp. Beat writers were infatuated with how many different places we lined Bowers up at. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) 23 minutes ago, NickButera said: To be fair, this very thing was reported ad nauseam during raiders camp. Beat writers were infatuated with how many different places we lined Bowers up at. That very well could be. I don't follow any beat writers... What have they been saying about Mayer or is he regulated to backup duty? I suppose my question would be how many TE's in the NFL are currently being used like Bowers (lining up all over the place according to beat writers) and what has their production been like over multiple years? Edited September 4 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I have no clue why you're saying the pick doesn't need to be defended unless you're implying he is a sure fire stud who will produce on the level of Gronk, Kelce or Gonzo. We have a 23 year old 2nd rounder on the roster from last year at a position that historically does not produce at a high level. You say it's insane that the pick needs to be defended and I say please explain to me how the pick makes sense (2 TE's in the first two round in back to back years) unless Bowers produces at the level I have mentioned in previous posts. He's a top 10 talent that we drafted outside of the top 10. I don't see the big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: He's a top 10 talent that we drafted outside of the top 10. I don't see the big deal. He's a top 10 talent, taken outside the top 10 at a position that historically does not consistently produce at a high level when we already had a "1st round talent" from last year on the roster that we selected in the 2nd round. If you don't see the big deal there then I don't what to tell you.... Edited September 4 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 19 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: That very well could be. I don't follow any beat writers... What have they been saying about Mayer or is he regulated to backup duty? I suppose my question would be how many TE's in the NFL are currently being used like Bowers (lining up all over the place according to beat writers) and what has their production been like over multiple years? Maybe was lined up as TE always while Bowers was just moved around everywhere, I believe I recall them mentioning even he was in the backfield once, but Im not certain. And yea, closest thing I can think of is Deebo. I don't know of any TEs that have been used that way, ever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrian Raider Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 2 hours ago, NickButera said: Maybe was lined up as TE always while Bowers was just moved around everywhere, I believe I recall them mentioning even he was in the backfield once, but Im not certain. And yea, closest thing I can think of is Deebo. I don't know of any TEs that have been used that way, ever. That is the crux of the issue, that he just refuse to acknowledge that if he is used that way he could change the course of the franchise. Main question is rather if Luke Getsy can unleash the potential of Brock Bowers potential - not if Brock Bowers has the potential at all. Sean McVay would've definately known what to do with him. That's why the Rams reportedly wanted to draft Bowers. For one who claims to earn a lot of money in stock market he is locked in his mindset with positional value and not seeing potential upside. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: He's a top 10 talent, taken outside the top 10 at a position that historically does not consistently produce at a high level when we already had a "1st round talent" from last year on the roster that we selected in the 2nd round. If you don't see the big deal there then I don't what to tell you.... I mean there's an obvious reason why he didn't go in the top 10: almost everyone else draft a QB WR and tackle. The talent was pushed down(at every other position). That's why it's not a big deal lol. I wasn't one of the people that said Mayer was a 1st rounder so that quote doesn't apply to me. However even it were true, it would allow us to have 2 really good TEs and utilize 12 personnel as a base formation (which nobody else does and would make us difficult to defend). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 6 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: He's a top 10 talent that we drafted outside of the top 10. I don't see the big deal. Frankie yells to draft the best player available every draft. They do, now he screams about positional value. What he actually wanted was to draft is need. He wanted Oline or CB. The CB class was weak and they went Oline the next 2 rounds. He seems completely unaware there is more than one way to skin a cat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 5 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Frankie yells to draft the best player available every draft. They do, now he screams about positional value. What he actually wanted was to draft is need. He wanted Oline or CB. The CB class was weak and they went Oline the next 2 rounds. He seems completely unaware there is more than one way to skin a cat. The stupid thing is that most people do it. Then when we do(undoubtedly) now it's a problem. I mean I would have had no problem with OT but corner was not that good this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 45 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: The stupid thing is that most people do it. Then when we do(undoubtedly) now it's a problem. I mean I would have had no problem with OT but corner was not that good this year. OT was deep and CB was mid. Bowers was a top 5 overall talent in the class who dropped because of a historically insane run on QBs. Arguing against the Brock Bowers pick just feels like you want attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 minute ago, big_palooka said: OT was deep and CB was mid. Bowers was a top 5 overall talent in the class who dropped because of a historically insane run on QBs. Arguing against the Brock Bowers pick just feels like you want attention. To some extent, I understand it because the Raiders have been so bad at drafting for 20 years it's to a point where people are naturally skeptical and manifest in different ways: -Some blindly trust the draft websites or television shows -others simply just say whoever the Raiders draft it should've been someone else. Again, that is understandable perspective given the Raiders record, but it doesn't mean it's true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 7 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: He's a top 10 talent, taken outside the top 10 at a position that historically does not consistently produce at a high level when we already had a "1st round talent" from last year on the roster that we selected in the 2nd round. If you don't see the big deal there then I don't what to tell you.... Would it help you if you looked at him as a WR? I've asked you several times what player specifically you would have drafted at 13. You still giving a cop out answer of "I don't have time to evaluate college football players" or are you simply waiting for a player to pop up to point at? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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