Blue Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Respectfully, I find that take wild. You're essentially saying that the supporting cast of a player does not matter... that you couldn't assume that a RB that gained 20 yards behind a terrible OLine would gain more yards behind an elite OLine. Hell, this entire league centers around the activity of predicting which teams would win in a hypothetical game despite these teams never playing each other in real life... ever. Yet, here we are, guessing as to the outcome. Not considering how differing supporting casts may influence the performances of those players is crazy. No, I'm not. I'm saying I don't think the supporting cast here was significantly better or more productive than what he had IRL. Especially relative to the much better defensive talent they are going up against here. Edited September 12 by Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 3 minutes ago, Blue said: No, I'm not. I'm saying I don't think the supporting cast here was significantly better or more productive than what he had IRL. Especially relative to the much better defensive talent they are going up against here. No, you agreed that MHJR would've only gained four yards in Week 1, regardless of his supporting cast, because MHJR only gained four yards in Week 1. And that's... wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 38 minutes ago, Blue said: Yes, because I have zero evidence to suggest otherwise but I have evidence his real-life QB doesn't trust him enough to force him the ball when he's not open. I mean there is this https://x.com/TrainIsland/status/1832871443610079446?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1832871443610079446|twgr^865e8d742a1f4addfdc68ce95cab2671c4933ec5|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnfl%2Fkyler-murray-ripped-for-not-seeing-wide-open-marvin-harrison-jr-in-final-minute-of-loss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 19 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: No, you agreed that MHJR would've only gained four yards in Week 1, regardless of his supporting cast, because MHJR only gained four yards in Week 1. And that's... wild. What's wild to me is ignoring actual performance in favor of what you think he would do based on what you thought of him as a prospect. 13 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: I mean there is this https://x.com/TrainIsland/status/1832871443610079446?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1832871443610079446|twgr^865e8d742a1f4addfdc68ce95cab2671c4933ec5|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnfl%2Fkyler-murray-ripped-for-not-seeing-wide-open-marvin-harrison-jr-in-final-minute-of-loss lol that's really funny, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedLavie Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 16 hours ago, Blue said: I'm curious--multiple people said they think MHJr has a better game with Stafford than he did IRL with Murray. Why? He's not a prospect anymore, he's an NFL player with one catch for four yards. And while I'm a certified Kyler Murray hater, I'm not convinced he was a worse quarterback this week and while I believe in giving vets some credit early in the season for past performance, it's been a long time since we saw Stafford play at a truly high level. Vote how you want, I just think it's odd to put this much faith in a guy who hasn't actually done anything at the pro level to be a difference maker. While I entirely agree with you, I find ironic that you are the one telling this when some people (to be fair, it was more Scoundrel than you) were trying to sell me Michael Mayer as a viable BDL starter last year when he had like 150 yards in his 10 week career. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFLukic Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 2 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Respectfully, I find that take wild. You're essentially saying that the supporting cast of a player does not matter... that you couldn't assume that a RB that gained 20 yards behind a terrible OLine would gain more yards behind an elite OLine. Hell, this entire league centers around the activity of predicting which teams would win in a hypothetical game despite these teams never playing each other in real life... ever. Yet, here we are, guessing as to the outcome. Not considering how differing supporting casts may influence the performances of those players is crazy. I agree with you but you'll find a lot of people just go off counting stats without context. E.g. if an RB goes from averaging 4.8 ypc behind an elite OL to a 4.2 behind a dog**** OL, they'll say the RB has regressed even though he's potentially playing even better. Blue's point about MHJ is fair I feel because it's literally his first ever start so it's not as though there's a body of professional work from years prior to rely on. Obviously Blue and everyone else thinks MHJ will be better than that and likely become a great receiver, but it's a tough projection for a one-off game like this when you have 0 evidence other than a 4 yard performance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 What Lukic said, it's just hard for me to give MHJ the benefit of the doubt when he literally hasn't done anything at the NFL level to justify that. If this was Week 10, sure, give him some benefit of the doubt--but I don't think his pedigree means I should ignore his (lack of) production in Week 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 1 hour ago, TedLavie said: it was more Scoundrel than you I was!? I don’t recall but he definitely isn’t that guy now… hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 1 hour ago, Blue said: What Lukic said, it's just hard for me to give MHJ the benefit of the doubt when he literally hasn't done anything at the NFL level to justify that. If this was Week 10, sure, give him some benefit of the doubt--but I don't think his pedigree means I should ignore his (lack of) production in Week 1. But the conversation isn't just MHJR. If it was based solely on MHJR, the exact same supporting cast and exact same opponent: absolutely. The conversation is about a drastic improvement to MHJR's supporting cast. If his supporting cast was improved, it's reasonable to suggest that his production could have also improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 3 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: But the conversation isn't just MHJR. If it was based solely on MHJR, the exact same supporting cast and exact same opponent: absolutely. The conversation is about a drastic improvement to MHJR's supporting cast. If his supporting cast was improved, it's reasonable to suggest that his production could have also improved. Okay, but: 1. I don't agree his supporting cast here is dramatically improved, especially relative to the opposing talent 2. I think once a guy is actually in the NFL, his draft evaluation and all of that goes out the window. What matters now is what he does on an NFL field, and what he did on an NFL field last week was backup material. Maybe that's due to a bunch of factors outside his control--it's just one game, after all. But I see no reason to assume he's going to be a playmaker or a difference maker just because of where he was drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFLukic Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 11 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: But the conversation isn't just MHJR. If it was based solely on MHJR, the exact same supporting cast and exact same opponent: absolutely. The conversation is about a drastic improvement to MHJR's supporting cast. If his supporting cast was improved, it's reasonable to suggest that his production could have also improved. That implies his lack of production was partially due to his supporting cast, which you can't really say after 1 game. He might be the next Kevin White ... who knows? Looking at someone like Davante Adams last season would be a good example. He went from Rodgers to back up level guys. If he started posting poor stat lines, I think it would be reasonable to assume that his supporting cast has something to do with it after years of elite play. MHJ doesn't have that track record yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 BDL: an exercise based solely on predicting and projecting performance, involving owners that can't understand that significantly better QB play has the chance to lead to more production from a starting WR. Fascinating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 5 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: BDL: an exercise based solely on predicting and projecting performance, involving owners that can't understand that significantly better QB play has the chance to lead to more production from a starting WR. Fascinating. i mean, part of our disagreement here is that I don't think Matthew Stafford is a better QB than Kyler Murray at their relative stages of their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedLavie Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 8 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: BDL: an exercise based solely on predicting and projecting performance, involving owners that can't understand that significantly better QB play has the chance to lead to more production from a starting WR. Fascinating. I do understand your POV, but who's to say MHJ (or Rome) don't just suck at football? We see hyped prospects not being good enough in the NFL for a myriad of reasons every year. Including blue-chip prospects and/or prospects I really like. So for me, for rookies, yeah I'm basing this on production only. May be harsh, but I'm not going to put anyone on a pedestal based on their NCAA career. And if you think otherwise that's fine too - that's BDL after all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 4 hours ago, Blue said: i mean, part of our disagreement here is that I don't think Matthew Stafford is a better QB than Kyler Murray at their relative stages of their careers. And Mahomes? Because you also said it wouldn't have been different had Mahomes been QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.