Ted Thompson to transition into a new role within the organization. GB will begin a search for a new GM.

[ChaRisMa]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Agree with this completely.

But in the eternal civil war of this Packer forum, it boggles my mind that the same group who wanted Thompson fired, is now advocating for Schneider.

It's like hating the engine performance in your Hyundai so you go out and buy a KIA.

Their Wikipedia Entries would look identical

• Early Years Free Agency Success
• Early Years Drafting Success
• Hiring of the Head Coach
• Drafting your Franchise QB
• Winning the Superbowl
• Poor middle and end tier drafting
• Mixed Free Agency Results
• Missing the Playoffs
• Firing???

It all boils down to who’s made more splash for those people. They’ll gladly give Matt Flynn 10 Mil if they can also deal picks for big names, regardless of the long term consequences.

One side constantly looks big picture. One side is only in the present. I submit, that once Rodgers is about to be done, the big picture people will support more aggressive moves because that’s the window. And if Rodgers is communicating with the front office, which, ALL evidence says he is, only the front office knows how much longer we’ll have him for. So you gotta support the big picture view until Rodgers is asking for the short term look, which he isn’t.

[Green19]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

You think Free Agency and Drafting has the same risk?

Hit rate wise... yes. If you do your homework on both you can have success at both. I think Green Bay proves that. The benefit of the draft is younger talent and less money invested, which is why I agree with draft and develop. But nothing is just black or white.

Its a matter of what’s out there at the time and weighting your options and understanding what you are giving up and who you can get. Honestly is risking a 2nd or 3rd on a “Richardson” or “Brown” type player any more risker than banking on Rollins being a natural at CB or Fackrell becoming physical?

No... it’s just Rollins and Fackrell are cheap and easier to cut given their contracts.

[packfanfb]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

Who was the "Richardson Caliber" edge rusher this year? I forget, what was your stance on Julius Peppers? He was the closest thing.

Hell idk, pick any of the top 2 rushers on any of the 3-4 teams in the league and explore your options to trade for a guy. Maybe you get a good deal, maybe you have to give up more than you wanted but you're taking a chance to help your team right now. Trade a 2 to philly for Graham, a 2 to KC for Ford, a 2 to Miami for Wake, etc.

My stance on Peppers was like most players...im okay with letting him walk if the money isnt right and you have a contingency. The latter is where Ted consistently failed. He lets Peppers walk because he plans to replace him with Fackrell. He loses Shields and says "well we have Randall and Rollins so we're good." Instead, lose Shields...why not trade for Haden or sign Logan? Lose Peppers? Trade for Graham/Ford, someone else. I cannot remember the last time, if ever, TT made a player trade that made us a better team than we were 5 minutes before the trade happened. For a SB ready team, to me thats insanity. 

[Pugger]

1 minute ago, ChaRisMa said:

It all boils down to who’s made more splash for those people. They’ll gladly give Matt Flynn 10 Mil if they can also deal picks for big names, regardless of the long term consequences.

One side constantly looks big picture. One side is only in the present. I submit, that once Rodgers is about to be done, the big picture people will support more aggressive moves because that’s the window. And if Rodgers is communicating with the front office, which, ALL evidence says he is, only the front office knows how much longer we’ll have him for. So you gotta support the big picture view until Rodgers is asking for the short term look, which he isn’t.

I don't want to sound petulant but what evidence?

[squire12]

Just now, ChaRisMa said:

It all boils down to who’s made more splash for those people. They’ll gladly give Matt Flynn 10 Mil if they can also deal picks for big names, regardless of the long term consequences.

One side constantly looks big picture. One side is only in the present. I submit, that once Rodgers is about to be done, the big picture people will support more aggressive moves because that’s the window. And if Rodgers is communicating with the front office, which, ALL evidence says he is, only the front office knows how much longer we’ll have him for. So you gotta support the big picture view until Rodgers is asking for the short term look, which he isn’t.

I agree with the basics of this, but are we sure that Rodgers is not potentially hinting at the window with him being shorter vs longer?    His last off season comment of "all in" (or whatever the specific quote was, might be hinting at a shorter remaining career vs longer.  

Also hard to say how a fracture clavicle and fairly significant surgery affects his view of his own mortality for  playing the game of football.  

He also will be dealing with the effects of colder weather playing in GB as he gets older.   That certainly affected Farve as he moved into the twilight of his career.

[Pugger]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

I agree with the basics of this, but are we sure that Rodgers is not potentially hinting at the window with him being shorter vs longer?    His last off season comment of "all in" (or whatever the specific quote was, might be hinting at a shorter remaining career vs longer.  

Also hard to say how a fracture clavicle and fairly significant surgery affects his view of his own mortality for  playing the game of football.  

He also will be dealing with the effects of colder weather playing in GB as he gets older.   That certainly affected Farve as he moved into the twilight of his career.

Of course Brady plays in a cold climate and he doesn't show signs - yet - of slowing down at 40 and Aaron will only be 34 when the 2018 season begins.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, packfanfb said:

Hell idk, pick any of the top 2 rushers on any of the 3-4 teams in the league and explore your options to trade for a guy. Maybe you get a good deal, maybe you have to give up more than you wanted but you're taking a chance to help your team right now. Trade a 2 to philly for Graham, a 2 to KC for Ford, a 2 to Miami for Wake, etc.

My stance on Peppers was like most players...im okay with letting him walk if the money isnt right and you have a contingency. The latter is where Ted consistently failed. He lets Peppers walk because he plans to replace him with Fackrell. He loses Shields and says "well we have Randall and Rollins so we're good." Instead, lose Shields...why not trade for Haden or sign Logan? Lose Peppers? Trade for Graham/Ford, someone else. I cannot remember the last time, if ever, TT made a player trade that made us a better team than we were 5 minutes before the trade happened. For a SB ready team, to me thats insanity. 

You understand that both sides have to agree to the trade, right??

Why on earth would teams with playoff aspirations be looking to trade pieces? The Jets were done with Richardson because he was constantly late for meetings, disrespecting coaches, doing his own thing on the field, made it very clear that he wasn't resigning, driving around at 140 MPH, stoned off his *** with a kid in the car (and possibly an unregistered handgun, could be misremembering my dumbass NFL player transgressions), and the team wasn't trying to win.

Kansas City, Miami, and Philly are all trying to win. Trades aren't a matter of saying Sheldon Richardson is as good as Brandon Graham. Sheldon Richardson was traded for a second round pick, the Eagles would trade me Brandon Graham for a second round pick.

+++

Additionally, he did not lose Shields and say, "We have Randall and Rollins so we're good." I don't know if you missed this but we drafted Kevin King and signed Davon House. There were player acquisitions made. 

[packfanfb]

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So unless you believe that acquiring Sheldon Richardson or Duane Brown would somehow prevent Rodgers from breaking his collar-bone, you have to roll with the concept that Rodgers missed most of his year.  So the Packers just traded their 2nd and 3rd round picks in this year's draft for a starting RT and pending FA.  That's a terrible gamble to make.  We're armed with our highest draft pick in years, and we're forced to trade down because we made a couple of short-sighted moves.  That hampers your flexibility to put a great franchise out there.  You want them to make bold moves, and ignore any kind of risk.  That's the kind of logic I can't stand.  I'm not opposed to making bold moves, but you make calculated bold moves.  Trading a 2nd round pick for a pending FA that isn't an QB, EDGE, CB, or LT is a terrible idea.

Sheldon Richardson wasn't even that good.  And you talk about the EDGE or CB of his caliber being available, tell me in the last decade which EDGE or CBs have been traded for a Day 1 or Day 2 pick.  Please list them.  They don't become available very often.

It made sense for Seattle to try. They werent counting on injuries to Sherman, Chancellor, etc. Just like we werent counting on Rodgers going down. My point is simple. Id rather burn the house down while we have Rodgers and deal with the ashes later. Ill take that over the TT way of doing things to just be a consistent team for the next 10-12 years, Imo, the former approach gives us a better shot at another SB.

[Green19]

23 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

To recap, my issue isn't with wanting Schneider.  It's those who are adamant that Schneider is this great GM who use the 2010-2012 drafts to defend their stance are the same posters who will conveniently ignore his drafts since 2013.  It's the same posters who have been hyper critical of TT's drafts since 2011.

To recap... I have no issues with either Ted or John missing. I understand that will happen on a long enough timeline.

Honestly if I could have my pick of any candidate... I’d likely go with Reggie McKenzie. But given the options afforded to GB currently I would say Schneider is the most experienced and best fit for the Packers at their current state with McCarthy still on board and an aging QB.

Now if it was like SF last year... I would likely say I’d want someone like DeCosta because making whole sale changes wouldn’t be a big deal if you are starting from zero.... GB isn’t though, so someone like Schneider makes the most sense.

[squire12]

Just now, Pugger said:

Of course Brady plays in a cold climate and he doesn't show signs - yet - of slowing down at 40 and Aaron will only be 34 when the 2018 season begins.

NE cold and GB cold are quite different.  NE coldest game at home is game time start of 13 degrees.   That does not even come close to the top 10 in GB history

[AlexGreen#20]

8 minutes ago, Green19 said:

Hit rate wise... yes. If you do your homework on both you can have success at both. I think Green Bay proves that. The benefit of the draft is younger talent and less money invested, which is why I agree with draft and develop. But nothing is just black or white.

Its a matter of what’s out there at the time and weighting your options and understanding what you are giving up and who you can get. Honestly is risking a 2nd or 3rd on a “Richardson” or “Brown” type player any more risker than banking on Rollins being a natural at CB or Fackrell becoming physical?

No... it’s just Rollins and Fackrell are cheap and easier to cut given their contracts.

If you sign players outside of your team, it makes it more difficult to resign your own. That's the problem with outside Free Agency. Resigning your own players has a far better hit rate than signing guys from outside. When you don't have resignings to make, that's when you start betting on the wildcards that are outside free agents. 

And if you notice, that's what we've been doing. 

[skibrett15]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

You think Bennett is coming back as an effective player or even coming back?

At the moment that defense has a solid Defensive Line duo, one edge rusher, a pair of good linebackers linebackers, and a great safety. Tell me I didn't just describe your 2017 Green Bay Packers (a rich man's version)?

Yeah, plus the promising young corner...

What do you mean re: Bennett?  Looks like he's under contract for 2 more years though they could save abt $5mil if they move away. 

From what I watched of him this year, and I watched several games of seattle looking at front 7, I think he's still a really valuable guy who is just playing an absolutely ludicrous # of snaps.

 

Motivated Sheldon Richardson is a top 20 defender in the league, and I saw a motivated Richardson with Seattle.  That push he had vs us in his first game was there the whole year.

 

Back to the topic at hand and speaking to Schneider: 

I was ok with the Graham move at the time it was made, and I see a lot of that as a coaching failure, an injury situation, and a Russell Wilson failure.  We've all seen much worse late first round picks than the past few years of Graham.

Team was SO dependent on the TE as a zone read blocker that it was just an awful fit initially.  But towards the end of 2016 they started going 3x1 with Graham isolated, and that was just devastatingly effective since it was either Graham in a ton of space or Baldwin on a crossing route underneath Graham..  That continued this year, and they added in a good use of him in the RZ.  Kudos to Bevell and Wilson there.

It's definitely true the recent drafts aren't good, but there's a trend that it's an attempt to fix OL issues, and a continued failure despite several high-mid picks.  Assuming TT takes the reigns setting the OL board and if we can keep Campen... I don't see that being an issue for Schneider.

[packfanfb]

 

[Pugger]

Just now, packfanfb said:

 

I have a feeling Seattle's price might be a tad steep...   

[packfanfb]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You understand that both sides have to agree to the trade, right??

Why on earth would teams with playoff aspirations be looking to trade pieces? The Jets were done with Richardson because he was constantly late for meetings, disrespecting coaches, doing his own thing on the field, made it very clear that he wasn't resigning, driving around at 140 MPH, stoned off his *** with a kid in the car (and possibly an unregistered handgun, could be misremembering my dumbass NFL player transgressions), and the team wasn't trying to win.

Kansas City, Miami, and Philly are all trying to win. Trades aren't a matter of saying Sheldon Richardson is as good as Brandon Graham. Sheldon Richardson was traded for a second round pick, the Eagles would trade me Brandon Graham for a second round pick.

+++

Additionally, he did not lose Shields and say, "We have Randall and Rollins so we're good." I don't know if you missed this but we drafted Kevin King and signed Davon House. There were player acquisitions made. 

Yes, i understand how trades work. I also understand neither you nor I know whether any of those trades, if pursued, would have been agreed upon.