Packerraymond Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, Leader said: Chill out. Suddenly alarmed because a few minority candidates actually got hired? It's well past time. Do you know these guys aren't qualified? No. I dont have a handle on the draft picks thing. I've read here that the hiring team gets the picks (which makes sense...) - but also - that the team that fired / lost the guy gets the picks (which doesnt make sense). I'm gonna presume it's the former. Regardless - I've no problem with diversity programs. I trust in an organization making the right decision on the qualifications of the candidate - draft picks not withstanding. If they're not - they're a loser organization for a reason. It's an incredibly stupid policy. It promotes diversity 5% of the time and the other 95% of the time is a chore teams have to fulfill by wasting everyone's time involved to meet some foolish requirement. Can't imagine how embarrassing it is for an accomplished man like Jim Caldwell to get 3-4 calls every December asking for an interview for a job he and everyone else knows he has no shot at. At least the Bears threw him a bone this year and made him a "finalist." There should be no need to promote it. If you have ownership groups that are going to eliminate candidates based on discriminatory biases, they probably are going to field incompetent staffs, resulting in very poor results and middling fan support. This stuff works itself out. A draft pick compensation to develop your minority candidates seems more like a "bribe" for doing something you should've been doing all along than it does any sort of equality promotion to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, Leader said: Chill out. Suddenly alarmed because a few minority candidates actually got hired? It's well past time. Do you know these guys aren't qualified? No. I dont have a handle on the draft picks thing. I've read here that the hiring team gets the picks (which makes sense...) - but also - that the team that fired / lost the guy gets the picks (which doesnt make sense). I'm gonna presume it's the former. Regardless - I've no problem with diversity programs. I trust in an organization making the right decision on the qualifications of the candidate - draft picks not withstanding. If they're not - they're a loser organization for a reason. **** off. I'm sick of people throwing around the racism label with impunity when it can seriously damage people's lives and career. It's not a game. I'm not "alarmed" that minority candidates are getting hired. Exactly the opposite. More minority candidates should be coaches in the NFL. I'm "alarmed" that we as a society seem to have decided that a job candidate's worthiness is one again tied to their race. I'm mad that we seem to be headed towards a world where racial quotas are not just accepted but are seen as good things. I'm sick of bull**** policies that some racism is acceptable while others are completely off limit. I'm mad as hell that there wasn't far more pushback 10 years ago when the thesis of "We're going to codify prejudiced policies against White people in order to make up for systemic racism!" was brought forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: It's an incredibly stupid policy. It promotes diversity 5% of the time and the other 95% of the time is a chore teams have to fulfill by wasting everyone's time involved to meet some foolish requirement. Can't imagine how embarrassing it is for an accomplished man like Jim Caldwell to get 3-4 calls every December asking for an interview for a job he and everyone else knows he has no shot at. At least the Bears threw him a bone this year and made him a "finalist." There should be no need to promote it. If you have ownership groups that are going to eliminate candidates based on discriminatory biases, they probably are going to field incompetent staffs, resulting in very poor results and middling fan support. This stuff works itself out. A draft pick compensation to develop your minority candidates seems more like a "bribe" for doing something you should've been doing all along than it does any sort of equality promotion to me. It's an imperfect policy - certainly - because the ultimate decision is left to the hiring party - as it should be. Contrary to some who feel the league is mandating "reverse racism" - the actual practice of hiring minority candidates is stark evidence that the hiring parties aren't paying attention. Until recently, there was only 1 of 32 positions filled with a minority candidate. Hardly the stuff of concern to white America in my view. Edited February 9, 2022 by Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Let's keep it to the Flores/NFL case and not get on a world spectrum here, that will get this thread locked up in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, Packerraymond said: Let's keep it to the Flores/NFL case and not get on a world spectrum here, that will get this thread locked up in a hurry. Fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 36 minutes ago, Leader said: Chill out. Suddenly alarmed because a few minority candidates actually got hired? It's well past time. Do you know these guys aren't qualified? No. I dont have a handle on the draft picks thing. I've read here that the hiring team gets the picks (which makes sense...) - but also - that the team that fired / lost the guy gets the picks (which doesnt make sense). I'm gonna presume it's the former. Regardless - I've no problem with diversity programs. I trust in an organization making the right decision on the qualifications of the candidate - draft picks not withstanding. If they're not - they're a loser organization for a reason. I didn't take any of that from what @AlexGreen#20said in his reply. His reply was spot on. Your comment about him being alarmed about 'a few minorities' being hired is so off base and off putting it really shouldn't have elicited a reply, but it was so far out of bounds I did anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: **** off. I'm sick of people throwing around the racism label with impunity when it can seriously damage people's lives and career. It's not a game. I'm not "alarmed" that minority candidates are getting hired. Exactly the opposite. More minority candidates should be coaches in the NFL. I'm "alarmed" that we as a society seem to have decided that a job candidate's worthiness is one again tied to their race. I'm mad that we seem to be headed towards a world where racial quotas are not just accepted but are seen as good things. I'm sick of bull**** policies that some racism is acceptable while others are completely off limit. I'm mad as hell that there wasn't far more pushback 10 years ago when the thesis of "We're going to codify prejudiced policies against White people in order to make up for systemic racism!" was brought forward. Well spoken! Every word of it! Having said that, there are many minority candidates who don't want their hiring marred by a quota system which makes them look less than qualified. Nothing could be further from the truth. It puts their hiring under a cloud of a 'quota' hiring rather than, 'we got the best person for the job!' Let's raise the standards for everybody, starting with elementary education all the way up through college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Leader said: It's an imperfect policy - certainly - because the ultimate decision is left to the hiring party - as it should be. Contrary to some who feel the league is mandating "reverse racism" - the actual practice of hiring minority candidates is stark evidence that the hiring parties aren't paying attention. Until recently, there was only 1 of 32 positions filled with a minority candidate. Hardly the stuff of concern to while America in my view. Black people are 12% of the US population. As a proportion you would expect to see 3.8 Black Head Coaches. There are 2. There very likely would have been 3 had Brian Flores not sued the league. You're talking about a decimal point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Leader said: It's an imperfect policy - certainly - because the ultimate decision is left to the hiring party - as it should be. This is some Galaxy brained thinking right here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 37 minutes ago, Leader said: Chill out. Suddenly alarmed because a few minority candidates actually got hired? It's well past time. Do you know these guys aren't qualified? No. I dont have a handle on the draft picks thing. I've read here that the hiring team gets the picks (which makes sense...) - but also - that the team that fired / lost the guy gets the picks (which doesnt make sense). I'm gonna presume it's the former. Regardless - I've no problem with diversity programs. I trust in an organization making the right decision on the qualifications of the candidate - draft picks not withstanding. If they're not - they're a loser organization for a reason. I agree that efforts in society to root out racism on both a systematic and individual scale is in general a good thing, but the Rooney Rule amongst other efforts by the NFL come across as both patronizing and ineffective. In the NFL, there are 32 owners, And 32 GMs/Presidents. If anything, the NFL should hire a panel of civil rights experts to analyze the individual trends of these 64 people or make suggestions on effective ways for minority candidates to have a fair shot at a career in the NFL - not just on coaching staffs but throughout all positions in each organization to ensure that they aren't significantly off from local demographics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Leader said: It's an imperfect policy - certainly - because the ultimate decision is left to the hiring party - as it should be. Contrary to some who feel the league is mandating "reverse racism" - the actual practice of hiring minority candidates is stark evidence that the hiring parties aren't paying attention. Until recently, there was only 1 of 32 positions filled with a minority candidate. Hardly the stuff of concern to while America in my view. I've already outlined this, you can look at it through those glasses or see that teams are hiring offensive candidates at a rate that far exceeds defensive candidates. Players foolishly think they need to get into coaching the position they played after their playing career. Lets take Al Harris for example, guy will probably never be an NFL HC. Retires and becomes a defensive quality assistant, gets a job with Andy Reid. What if he told Reid he wanted to be an offensive quality assistant? He's worked with Dallas and KC so far, he'd probably be a position coach this point working with two of the leagues highest powered offenses, eventually that will lead to an OC job somewhere, and just about every successful OC becomes a HC. The league doesn't have a diversity problem, it has a coaching development problem. Train minority coaches on the offensive side of the ball, specifically coaching QBs, work their way up, get the best coaches calling plays, and you'll have plenty of worthy HC candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Black people are 12% of the US population. As a proportion you would expect to see 3.8 Black Head Coaches. There are 2. There very likely would have been 3 had Brian Flores not sued the league. You're talking about a decimal point. The % that matters is that of black people in the "population" of NFL players - which far exceeds 12%. Now not all football players make for good coaches - regardless of skin color - got that - but their % of HC positions is ridiculously low IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: I've already outlined this, you can look at it through those glasses or see that teams are hiring offensive candidates at a rate that far exceeds defensive candidates. Players foolishly think they need to get into coaching the position they played after their playing career. Lets take Al Harris for example, guy will probably never be an NFL HC. Retires and becomes a defensive quality assistant, gets a job with Andy Reid. What if he told Reid he wanted to be an offensive quality assistant? He's worked with Dallas and KC so far, he'd probably be a position coach this point working with two of the leagues highest powered offenses, eventually that will lead to an OC job somewhere, and just about every successful OC becomes a HC. The league doesn't have a diversity problem, it has a coaching development problem. Train minority coaches on the offensive side of the ball, specifically coaching QBs, work their way up, get the best coaches calling plays, and you'll have plenty of worthy HC candidates. I've already spoken to these points PR. I'm ultimately relying on the organization to hire the proper candidate. IF one is induced to hire a minority based on the draft picks - they're probably a bad organization who will make an incorrect judgement and continue to lose as a consequence. To use your own words: "this stuff will work itself out" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Leader said: The % that matters is that of black people in the "population" of NFL players - which far exceeds 12%. Now not all football players make for good coaches - regardless of skin color - got that - but their % of HC positions is ridiculously low IMO. Do you not realize you don't have to be in the NFL as a player to be a Head Coach? Edited February 9, 2022 by AlexGreen#20 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Alright...let's stop discussing race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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