Leader Posted May 8, 2023 Author Share Posted May 8, 2023 42 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Call it a rebuild, call it retooling, doesn't really matter. It's about seeing what we have in Jordan Love and seeing what we need next offseason to be back into a title window. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 8, 2023 Author Share Posted May 8, 2023 11 hours ago, R T said: I missed the demolition part of it, unless not re-signing a bunch of washed-up has-beens is viewed as a demolition. Is it really any different than any other year except for the change at QB. Probably be 2 different starters on defense and 2 different starters on offense with about the same amount of roster turnover from any other year. The regular annual retooling only this year with a whole bunch of hoopla about a change at QB. It's fans overthinking things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Wonder if the Chiefs thought they were 'retooling' with Patrick Mahomes his first year as a starter? Wonder if the Bengals did with Burrow? Our guy has had three years to learn. It is not unreasonable to assume he's going to play far better than a 1st year rookie quarterback. He's probably got a better roster than most first year quarterbacks who start because those teams tend to be drafting in the top 10. I understand the 'getting the cap right!" The counterpoint to that is our roster is not bereft of talent like many of those young quarterbacks walk into. I believe in Jordan Love and will until he proves he's unworthy of that faith. Winning the North is not out of the question. Yes I'm sure they did, just like the Eagles did last year. Tanking has ruined the phrase "rebuilding" in sports. Rebuilding is a positive, "building" is in the word, you're building towards something. The Packers are not going to win the SB this year, they are in "insert adjective here that won't offend you" mode. If Jordan Love plays as well as some of those guys in their first year, then next year we start situating ourselves for the next window. Little more dead cap to eat potentially with Bakh, Jones and Preston, but we're on the path to cap health and youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said: I think what is annoying people is how he words it, indicating that 2023 "dosen't matter" or a throw a way season . It's a reload season for sure (Not a full rebuild), but you sure want to treat 2023 as a season that matters from the players all the way up to the GM. Being ok with losing or whatever some people are implying can lead to a losing culture going forward. Bingo. It's both annoying and frankly, flat out wrong, unless the person saying it believes Love cannot match Rodgers' production in 2022 or even a little better. Because if he does, we are a team that in the hunt for the division, or at the very least, a wildcard spot. Nothing else material has changed. Arguably our defense should be better (especially with injured guys coming back) and we didn't lose anyone on offense who is going to make a difference in the W-L column outside of 12. So, if you're walking into this thinking, "Love is going to struggle as a first year starter," then yea, 2023 might be a "throwaway" season. But if you don't feel that way about Love, then losing role players like Lazard, Cobb, Lewis, Lowry and even Amos (assuming he goes) should not impact our ability to compete...at all. Edited May 8, 2023 by packfanfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 8 hours ago, Lodestar said: What is wrong with what he said? Is it that Packers players might see it and get upset? Nagler is just saying the same thing 95% of fans on here are saying lol So Nagler and 95% of fans are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: Big difference between a fan saying it isnt about 2023 and a player. 2010-2022 was Super Bowl or bust, for the first time in awhile, this year isn't. It's a trim the fat year and get cap healthy. Call it a rebuild, call it retooling, doesn't really matter. It's about seeing what we have in Jordan Love and seeing what we need next offseason to be back into a title window. What does "super bowl or bust" mean? That if we didn't win the SB any of those years we we're going to blow up the team? How is 2023 any different from 2013? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Yes I'm sure they did, just like the Eagles did last year. Tanking has ruined the phrase "rebuilding" in sports. Rebuilding is a positive, "building" is in the word, you're building towards something. The Packers are not going to win the SB this year, they are in "insert adjective here that won't offend you" mode. If Jordan Love plays as well as some of those guys in their first year, then next year we start situating ourselves for the next window. Little more dead cap to eat potentially with Bakh, Jones and Preston, but we're on the path to cap health and youth. I said, winning the North was not out of the question. You went straight to winning the Super Bowl. Also, don't give me this bull**** about not offending me. This is a stupid discussion on a message board. Anybody getting offended by our discussion here is probably soft anyway. We purged our roster of most of the older guys, we're in a youth movement. Rodgers is the only one of those vets who can still play at a high level, and we were done with him. Somebody could make the case for Lazard as a #3 WR and nobody would be offended by that either, he wasn't in the budget. Glad we are getting our cap right, but this team has enough talent to WIN THE NORTH THIS YEAR! Get into the playoffs and see what happens. Playoff experience for the whole crew would be great. Edited May 8, 2023 by Old Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 30 minutes ago, Leader said: It's fans overthinking things. It's a fan overreacting thing. Many people set themselves up for it, when a team is believed to have a good chance, they take an SB or bust mentality and are disappointed with a playoff team if a SB victory is not the end result. On the other side is a year like the coming season. Most of the core returns minus the QB from a team that was one of the favorites to win it all a year ago, yet now they have no chance and are in a rebuilt team mode. This team will be better this year in many areas than the team was a year ago, the OL now is fully healthy which was a huge negative last season. I'm not here trying to make a case the Packers will win the SB this season, but a playoff team should not be a surprise to fans either. Mark Sanchez led the Jets to the AFC Championship game as a rookie, yes Mark Sanchez. Ben Roethlisberger won the SB as a rookie on a team that most were saying was in a 'rebuilt' at the time. Shaun King was a rookie who lost in the NFC Championship game. Joe Flacco led his team to the AFC title game as a rookie. None of those teams QB had 3 years of tutoring behind an all-time great to get comfortable with their situation. Some need to throw a wet blanket on this team over their fear of failure, but it would be a mistake to think this team doesn't have playoff potential. And from there anything can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 21 minutes ago, incognito_man said: What does "super bowl or bust" mean? That if we didn't win the SB any of those years we we're going to blow up the team? How is 2023 any different from 2013? I don't recall us coming off a losing season in 2013 while eating 57 million dollars in dead cap space all while trading Aaron Rodgers, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, Old Guy said: I said, winning the North was not out of the question. You went straight to winning the Super Bowl. Also, don't give me this bull**** about not offending me. This is a stupid discussion on a message board. Anybody getting offended by our discussion here is probably soft anyway. We purged our roster of most of the older guys, we're in a youth movement. Rodgers is the only one of those vets who can still play at a high level, and we were done with him. Somebody could make the case for Lazard as a #3 WR and nobody would be offended by that either, he wasn't in the budget. Glad we are getting our cap right, but this team has enough talent to WIN THE NORTH THIS YEAR! Get into the playoffs and see what happens. Playoff experience for the whole crew would be great. Sure, win the division and see what happens is a great realistic goal for the team to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: I don't recall us coming off a losing season in 2013 while eating 57 million dollars in dead cap space all while trading Aaron Rodgers, do you? Is that how you define "or bust"? Any season that the previous year you had a winning record and current year are not carrying significant dead cap? And what does "or bust" actually mean? What action does it infer? Should fans not feel sad if we don't win the SB this year? What if we end up 12-5 and lose on a hail Mary in the NFCCG this year? Should we all stand up and cheer because it wasn't a SB or bust season back in May? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: Is that how you define "or bust"? Any season that the previous year you had a winning record and current year are not carrying significant dead cap? And what does "or bust" actually mean? What action does it infer? Should fans not feel sad if we don't win the SB this year? What if we end up 12-5 and lose on a hail Mary in the NFCCG this year? Should we all stand up and cheer because it wasn't a SB or bust season back in May? Do you really need an explanation on a phrase we've been saying since we won in 2011? I didn't create this phrase myself. I'm not sure the point of anything you're asking. This is very clearly a new chapter of Packers football, one that deserves a new definition of ultimate success for this year. If Jordan Love looks like 2008 Aaron Rodgers or 2018 Patrick Mahomes, I don't really care if we go 3-14, it was a successful year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Do you really need an explanation on a phrase we've been saying since we won in 2011? I didn't create this phrase myself. I'm not sure the point of anything you're asking. This is very clearly a new chapter of Packers football, one that deserves a new definition of ultimate success for this year. If Jordan Love looks like 2008 Aaron Rodgers or 2018 Patrick Mahomes, I don't really care if we go 3-14, it was a successful year. I do, yes. Because it's a meaningless platitude designed to do exactly what you just provided an example of: hedge your emotional bets. There's no other reason for a GB fan looking at this team objectively to have any expectations other than competing for a SB in 2023. Unless you want to protect your emotions. I promise you every single person in 1265 is planning to compete for a SB in 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I do, yes. Because it's a meaningless platitude designed to do exactly what you just provided an example of: hedge your emotional bets. There's no other reason for a GB fan looking at this team objectively to have any expectations other than competing for a SB in 2023. Unless you want to protect your emotions. I promise you every single person in 1265 is planning to compete for a SB in 2023. Every single person in 1265 has a job that depends on team success. I do not, therefore I can take a realistic view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Arthur Penske said: I think what is annoying people is how he words it, indicating that 2023 "dosen't matter" or a throw a way season . It's a reload season for sure (Not a full rebuild), but you sure want to treat 2023 as a season that matters from the players all the way up to the GM. Being ok with losing or whatever some people are implying can lead to a losing culture going forward. Agree 100% on that which is why I couldn't understand fans giving up on the season last year and wanting us to tank. When we still had a chance we should absolutely have been going all-out. There are two mentalities. The players and coaches should be doing absolutely everything to win now. Everything. Even if we are 0-7 we need to be giving everything to fight to the end. From a GM perspective though. Doing everything you can to win now means taking resources from 2024 and beyond. In that regard 2023 isn't important relatively speaking. This isn't a year that the GMs should be doing everything that they can to maximise the win count for 2023. Its a year when they they should be doing everything they can to re-open the window for 2024 or beyond. Saying 2023 doesn't matter is a poor choice of words. Obviously it does matter - in fact its a very important year to set up the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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