The Future of This Franchise (Coaching Staff Debate)

[August4th]

interesting

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-mike-tomlin-ran-steelers-defense-2017/

[August4th]

 

[43M]

On 1/17/2018 at 4:50 PM, 3rivers said:

I went to look for the facepalm emoticon and it's not there, neither is head hitting the brick wall emoticon available. 

If they keep this defence the way it was, how will we watch these games without high levels of alcohol ?

The only change I desperately wanted was Carnell Lake gone.   I dont blame Butler as much as some Steeler fans do.  Not saying he is great or even good,  but I think our defensive issues are more talent related.  We dont have nearly as much defensive Talent as some of you seem to think we do, especially without Shazier. Cam Heyward, Stephon Tuitt, and TJ Watt are the only three defensive players we have that I trust going forward. Joe Haden has been pretty solid for us, but there is nothing else in the secondary I'd have any faith in. The only way Sean Davis can be salvaged in my opinion is if we get a great safety next to him, which I don't see happening. We also likely need two new starting inside linebackers in a pass-rusher next to TJ Watt, because let's face it, Bud Dupree is pretty much a bust.

[3rivers]

43 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

The only change I desperately wanted was Carnell Lake gone.   I dont blame Butler as much as some Steeler fans do.  Not saying he is great or even good,  but I think our defensive issues are more talent related.  We dont have nearly as much defensive Talent as some of you seem to think we do, especially without Shazier. Cam Heyward, Stephon Tuitt, and TJ Watt are the only three defensive players we have that I trust going forward. Joe Haden has been pretty solid for us, but there is nothing else in the secondary I'd have any faith in. The only way Sean Davis can be salvaged in my opinion is if we get a great safety next to him, which I don't see happening. We also likely need two new starting inside linebackers in a pass-rusher next to TJ Watt, because let's face it, Bud Dupree is pretty much a bust.

Davis could be better than we think, he has no help IMO, so wait and see or get someone else and Davis could be depth, but I am not giving up on him  yet anyways. Burns , decent at times and while a new DB coach could help, I want to sing a proven Vet comparable to Haden.  Burns was a RD1 pick but plays like a RD3 , and too many breakdowns and penalties for me. 

I always thought the HC makes the decisions but it appears that Rooney has final say, and of all things tomlin might not be to blame for some of his staff. What a situation to be in as a HC. Get butler some talent and see? I hope thats what happens because we say how these last few playoffs went, with or without Bell. The D is the problem.

 

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, August4th said:

interesting

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-mike-tomlin-ran-steelers-defense-2017/

what's next? The more I read about this team the more it needs help with coaching and discipline/conduct. 

[CKSteeler]

You have Bell showing up late on back-to-back days are making moronic public statements. Again. You have, apparently, a coach showing up late before a playoff game. Reports that that this wasn't even rare throughout the season. Harrison was apparently sleeping and interrupting meetings throughout the year.

Then there's Tomlin taking a more hands on approach with the defense and in particular, the secondary. Well, the results sure did speak for themselves. I'm glad he was in the meeting room with those DB's. It all clearly paid off.

But Mike Tomlin sure never lost the team. Those guys? Respect the hell out of their coach.

[tonyto36]

On 1/14/2018 at 9:02 PM, 1BackInBlackFan said:

I would like to see two new coordinators and a secondary coach.

Wasn't Tomlin coaching the secondary this year?

[tonyto36]

On 1/17/2018 at 8:57 PM, wwhickok said:

I like the move at OC. I think we are gonna see Randy Fichtner adjust the offense to get more from Ben. 

The offense did underperform to the talent this season IMO, but that could have just been symptomatic of Bell and Brown and company doing whatever they wanted because Tomlin let them.  And giving up 45 to the Jags and the no-show on defense shouldn't be scape goated on anyone on offense.

[43M]

19 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

You have Bell showing up late on back-to-back days are making moronic public statements. Again. You have, apparently, a coach showing up late before a playoff game. Reports that that this wasn't even rare throughout the season. Harrison was apparently sleeping and interrupting meetings throughout the year.

Then there's Tomlin taking a more hands on approach with the defense and in particular, the secondary. Well, the results sure did speak for themselves. I'm glad he was in the meeting room with those DB's. It all clearly paid off.

But Mike Tomlin sure never lost the team. Those guys? Respect the hell out of their coach.

Dont forget the current government shutdown.    Thats clearly Tomlin's fault as well.    

[VigilantZombie]

Tomlin is responsible and needs to be held responsible for one thing in particular.  The lack (seemingly so) of holding his Coordinators and Position Coaches accountable. Realistically I think that Tomlin has done more good than bad but when it comes to the defensive staff, I think that Carnell Lake and Joey Porter NEED to be gone. 

Personally, this is the list of Coaches I'd like to see removed from our staff:

Joey Porter: OLBs

Jerry Olsavsky: ILBs

Carnell Lake: DBs

Additionally I'd like them to add "help" in coaching the Defensive Line or maybe even removing that responsiblity from Assistant HC John Mitchell and allowing someone else to do it.  I think more of our DL has failed than succeeded in recent years outside of Heyward and Tuitt who came to this team with most of the talent that they display on a weekly basis.

 

The Progression of talent when we get seemingly talented players is horrible.  Curtis Brown, who may not have been as good as some of us expected, I find it insane that Carnell Lake was able to get nothing out of him.  I find it insane we've had more people in our secondary than most people have roster spots (obviously exaggerating).

In 2 seasons when Keith Butler's contract expires, if the defense has not improved he should not return and IF the defense has not improved and we have not gotten back to the SB by that time, Tomlin should join him on the unemployment line.

 

IF nothing changes on the defensive staff, I'm going to predict a 10-6 season with the division title and a first round playoff loss.

[VigilantZombie]

I'd like to add, I'd like to see all of these guys replaced too:

 

Mark Bruener, College Scout 
Mike Butler, College Scout 
Dan Colbert, College/Pro Scout 
Mark Gorscak, College Scout 
Chidi Iwuoma, BLESTO Scout 
Bruce McNorton, College Scout 
Dave Petett, Pro/College Scout 

I don't see anything scouting wise that any of these guys could possibly have added to the quality of this team.  Mark Bruener...lol if he's the one scouting QB's he's part of the problem. I'm assuming Dan Colbert is related to Kevin, so we can guess how he got his job.  

The problem is no one seems to be willing to blame Colbert or his scouting staff for their failures in the draft.

[Livewire]

51 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

Wasn't Tomlin coaching the secondary this year?

Carnell Lake is the secondary coach and it continues to be the team's weak link for years now on defense even if Tomlin focuses on it more than other positions. Both Burns and Davis regressed this season instead of progressing.

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Dont forget the current government shutdown.    Thats clearly Tomlin's fault as well.    

I'd give Tomlin credit for that rather than blame.

But your'e right - it's clearly too much of Mike Tomlin, one of football's highest paid head guys, to get his coaches to show up on time for a playoff game. Let alone his players. What's a guy to do? Just powerless. It must be Art II.

Belichick is just some other worldly being up their in Foxborro who can bend anyone and everyone to his will. We can't hold Tomlin to that sort of standard.

[VigilantZombie]

4 hours ago, tonyto36 said:

The offense did underperform to the talent this season IMO, but that could have just been symptomatic of Bell and Brown and company doing whatever they wanted because Tomlin let them.  And giving up 45 to the Jags and the no-show on defense shouldn't be scape goated on anyone on offense.

I agree with that. But i think this was more 'convenient timing' due to the fact Haley had an expired contract.

[43M]

12 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Tomlin is responsible and needs to be held responsible for one thing in particular.  The lack (seemingly so) of holding his Coordinators and Position Coaches accountable. Realistically I think that Tomlin has done more good than bad but when it comes to the defensive staff, I think that Carnell Lake and Joey Porter NEED to be gone. 

Personally, this is the list of Coaches I'd like to see removed from our staff:

Joey Porter: OLBs

Jerry Olsavsky: ILBs

Carnell Lake: DBs

Additionally I'd like them to add "help" in coaching the Defensive Line or maybe even removing that responsiblity from Assistant HC John Mitchell and allowing someone else to do it.  I think more of our DL has failed than succeeded in recent years outside of Heyward and Tuitt who came to this team with most of the talent that they display on a weekly basis.

 

The Progression of talent when we get seemingly talented players is horrible.  Curtis Brown, who may not have been as good as some of us expected, I find it insane that Carnell Lake was able to get nothing out of him.  I find it insane we've had more people in our secondary than most people have roster spots (obviously exaggerating).

In 2 seasons when Keith Butler's contract expires, if the defense has not improved he should not return and IF the defense has not improved and we have not gotten back to the SB by that time, Tomlin should join him on the unemployment line.

 

IF nothing changes on the defensive staff, I'm going to predict a 10-6 season with the division title and a first round playoff loss.

The main reason I never really liked the hiring of Lake and Porter is because I felt like they would get preferential treatment, not so much from TOmlin, but the organization in general.   Thats partly why Im not big on hiring former highly regarded players as coaches.

I dont get the hate for Jerry Olsavsky.    What exactly has he done so poorly?    He hasnt been given much talent to work with, and the talented pieces he did have (Shazier and Timmons), he had some success with.  Beyond that, what has he had?     Vince Williams isnt starter quality but he is a good backup.   I mean, after that, he has had mostly fringe roster players to work with.

I said the only two coaches I really wanted to see gone were Haley and Lake.    Lake has done nothing since he has been here.    

Porter, Butler and even Tomlin should be on the watchlist going forward....and it all comes down to the defense.   The offense should be largely set.   They need to go all out to fix the defense....at least to a point where it can support the offense.     Before Haden and Shazier went down, the defense was playing fairly well....so lets not act like this defense has shown no ability.    However, after losing Shazier, they need a new playmaker on defense, because thats clearly what we lacked.