steelcurtain29 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I'm seeing a lot of conflicted talk about Tomlin and his staff. I think it's time we dedicated a thread to debating this. Feel free to share your opinions here. Make sure you are respectful of everyone's opinions. I will be watching closely. AAAAAAAAND......... GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Quote And those were extreme dire situations. We can talk about that when we have 6 DB's hurt or 4-5 ILB's. When you're giving up 45 to the Bortles-led Jaguars in the playoffs, things are pretty dire, if you ask me. The writing has been on the wall since the injury. Tomlin decided to go with his initial plan and stick with it with only tweaks. And there was no plan B. And you're talking about versatility when Tomlin has stressed repeatedly the need to have multiple guys fill-in for Shazier. Quote We'll never know will we? Maybe it was both were comfortable with him in a pinch because he's familiar. That's just as important in a late season pickup for an important role as just ability. We went through that multiple times this year. Tomlin's comfort isn't high on my priority list. What gives him comfort often doesn't look too comfortable on the field to me. Belichick was fine going with unknown street guys and playing them when injuries hit this year. Belichick, unlike Tomlin, is fine tasking his guys with learning new things on the fly. Tomlin should maybe wake-up and take notice. He's more of a "do what we do" type than Cowher. People ask how much of what a coach does do we actually get to see. Well, I know we get to see how they use personnel if not why. And there's never been much creativity from Tomlin. Nor is he the type to bust out new and interesting wrinkles in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, CKSteeler said: When you're giving up 45 to the Bortles-led Jaguars in the playoffs, things are pretty dire, if you ask me. The writing has been on the wall since the injury. Tomlin decided to go with his initial plan and stick with it with only tweaks. And there was no plan B. And you're talking about versatility when Tomlin has stressed repeatedly the need to have multiple guys fill-in for Shazier. Tomlin's comfort isn't high on my priority list. What gives him comfort often doesn't look too comfortable on the field. Belichick was fine going with unknown street guys and playing them when injuries hit this year. Just curious....what would your "plan B" be? Some players mean more to a defense than others. Shazier was an emotional leader and our defense was largely built around him and his speed. Regardless of who you sign or bring in, when you lose a player like that, there isnt much that can be done to make things better. You mention Hightower, and while he might be as good as Shazier from a talent standpoint, that doesnt mean he was as pivotal to the defense as Shazier. Some units are build around players.....lose a key one and things crumble. The Pats defense has never really seemed like it was built around any player.....even when they have great ones. Its a collective, disciplined unit and plays like a well oiled machine. I sure as hell wish we had that.....but we dont. It was like years ago under LeBeau when we lost Aaron Smith to injury.....our defense didnt look the same without him. So even the almighty LeBeau didnt have a defense where you could plug and play like the Patriots often do. Just now, CKSteeler said: People ask how much of what a coach does do we actually get to see. Well, I know we get to see how they use personnel if not why. And there's never been much creativity from Tomlin. Nor is he the type to bust out new and interesting wrinkles in the playoffs. We also get to see how that personnel performs, so the question then becomes....how much of that is on coaching, and how much of that is due to the talent (or lack thereof?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I'm gonna go almost coach by coach here: Saxon (RB's): Safe, he's done a good job Porter (OLB): He's been given a bunch of talent and done nothing with it. He should go. Olsavsky (ILB): Like Porter, he's been given talent and squandered it. Munchak (OLine): Keep him on OLine and make him assistant HC. Keep him around with a slight bump in title and pay. Mann (WR's): I think he said he's retiring, but I like him. He would be my vote for push to OC. Lake (DB's): He's wasted a ton of talent and blown every pet project pick he's wanted. He's got to go. Fichtner (QB's): Ben really likes him and he's turned Landry Jones into a serviceable backup. He should stay. Daniel (TE's): Keep him. He's got James Blocking, and has turned meh players into contributors. Smith (ST's): Ugh....we're better but we still suck. I think it's time for fresh blood. Mitchell (DLine): I guess he can stay? I mean the DL is good, but he's also been gifted a ton of talent there. Haley (OC): Don't renew his contract. Please don't. We succeed in spite of him, not because of him. Butler (DC): Look, I know some want to give him more time, but I see 3/4 of his positional coaches as failing. It's hard to put much faith in this guy for me. Tomlin: If this much goes down as I want, I would love to see him stay and finally get say in bringing his guys in and not have Rooney's/Colbert push certain guys on him. I've grown really frustrated with that part of how we run. Not one of these guys is a "Tomlin hire". They are all Colbert's hires. And I want to see what this team would look like if he brought in guys that like the 4-3 a little more, and offensive coordinator who can be more consistent with his playcalling and feel the flow of the game better. Here's where I'm going to start: Try to lure Ken Wisenhunt back for OC. There's a lot of talk about Boyer and Flores in NE as soon to be DC's, I would try to talk one of them into coming over. Especially Josh Boyer who has worked wonders with that Pat's secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus-Viktor Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Get rid of Tomlin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said: Get rid of Tomlin! with that, usually a new coach cleans house and bring this own staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said: Get rid of Tomlin! Who are you bringing in who you know is better? Anyone who says that they want Tomlin gone should be required to name a replacement that they thing is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Patricia would be a good coach for intel, but why not try to see what he does with this talented team . Cowher worked under marty, patricia worked under BB. Why not take from the team you can't defeat? My main problem with tomlin is his legacy of playing down to bad teams or in this case, not getting started until the game was out of reach. The team was talking about the pats next week, that is a bad sign. The D, that could be butler but tomlin should be able to help that with his D back ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Porter (OLB): He's been given a bunch of talent and done nothing with it. He should go. Not big on the job Porter has done either. Could go either way on him. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Olsavsky (ILB): Like Porter, he's been given talent and squandered it. Hmm....not sure I totally agree on this one. Not that he has been great, but Shazier was pretty damn good, and beyond that, what did we have? Timmons in past years, who was decent. I would probably keep him. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Munchak (OLine): Keep him on OLine and make him assistant HC. Keep him around with a slight bump in title and pay. Yes....need to keep Munch. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Lake (DB's): He's wasted a ton of talent and blown every pet project pick he's wanted. He's got to go. The talent isnt even the main issue....its complete lack of discipline. Almost reminds me of the years before we got Munch on the OLine. We had players like Pouncey, Gilbert and DeCastro, but the still lacked cohesiveness and discipline, and as soon as Munch fixed that and added another piece or two, things got better. As much as I loved Lake as a player, he really hasnt worked out as a secondary coach. Literally cant think of one success he has had as coach of our secondary. Numerous failures, though. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Smith (ST's): Ugh....we're better but we still suck. I think it's time for fresh blood. I actually like him. Maybe I just remember how bad some of our units in the past were.....but I dont have an issue with him. Wouldnt be mad if he was fired either. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Mitchell (DLine): I guess he can stay? I mean the DL is good, but he's also been gifted a ton of talent there. Its hard to say because they dont use the DLine talent the way they should IMO. Tuitt and Hargrave are attacking lineman....and really arent used that way. Not enough, anyway. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Haley (OC): Don't renew his contract. Please don't. We succeed in spite of him, not because of him. You said it alot nicer than I would have.....so we will leave it at that. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Butler (DC): Look, I know some want to give him more time, but I see 3/4 of his positional coaches as failing. It's hard to put much faith in this guy for me. For me, this comes down to one question: Who replaces him? Is it going to be an internal promotion? If so...no thank you. It would likely just be more of the same anyway. Outside coaches? If so, who? Off the top of my head...Chuck Pagano? Rex Ryan? Our luck they would hire ROB Ryan, and sorry, Ill take Butler over ROB Ryan every day. 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: Tomlin: If this much goes down as I want, I would love to see him stay and finally get say in bringing his guys in and not have Rooney's/Colbert push certain guys on him. I've grown really frustrated with that part of how we run. Not one of these guys is a "Tomlin hire". They are all Colbert's hires. And I want to see what this team would look like if he brought in guys that like the 4-3 a little more, and offensive coordinator who can be more consistent with his playcalling and feel the flow of the game better. Here's where I'm going to start: Try to lure Ken Wisenhunt back for OC. There's a lot of talk about Boyer and Flores in NE as soon to be DC's, I would try to talk one of them into coming over. Especially Josh Boyer who has worked wonders with that Pat's secondary. I was with you up until Ken Whisenhunt. Dont want him back at all. Never thought he was that good. Id take him over Haley, though....but Id take a swift kick in the balls over Haley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus-Viktor Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I've wanted Kyle Shanahan for years. He looked good in SF when he finally got a QB. There is no excuse for the Steelers to continually be out coached every damn game. They have squandered so much talent it is ridiculous. I don't give a damn who it is! Just get rid of the same crap that never changes. Every year under Tomlin there is less and less discipline. I thought the overall talent level of the players on the team might be enough to compensate for the lack of talent from the coaches, but when Shazier went down, they couldn't mask the flaws in the coaches anymore. Tomlin's in game coaching decisions are asinine. Always have been. F that noise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said: Get rid of Tomlin! f Okay, lets say it happened. Here is the future.... Steelers go 7-9 next year.....One year from now..... 23 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said: Fire this bum!!!! Every year, the same Steeler fans chant Tomlin should be fired.....but have absolutely no suggestions about who to replace him with. Reality is, the Steelers fanbase is laughably spoiled, and every year that ends in anything than a Superbowl victory, fans are going to overreact and start chanting we should clean house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: Not big on the job Porter has done either. (Coach O) Could go either way on him. Hmm....not sure I totally agree on this one. Not that he has been great, but Shazier was pretty damn good, and beyond that, what did we have? Timmons in past years, who was decent. I would probably keep him. (Lake) The talent isnt even the main issue....its complete lack of discipline. Almost reminds me of the years before we got Munch on the OLine. We had players like Pouncey, Gilbert and DeCastro, but the still lacked cohesiveness and discipline, and as soon as Munch fixed that and added another piece or two, things got better. As much as I loved Lake as a player, he really hasnt worked out as a secondary coach. Literally cant think of one success he has had as coach of our secondary. Numerous failures, though. (Mitchell) Its hard to say because they dont use the DLine talent the way they should IMO. Tuitt and Hargrave are attacking lineman....and really arent used that way. Not enough, anyway I'm lumping these three together because we've put a bunch of resources there. And we're just not getting the results out of it we should. I know you're down on Burns and Davis, but they are talented guys. Same with Dupree. Those guys are talented and skilled but aren't progessing. The coaching just isn't doing them any favors. These guys would all likely be better coaches with more veteran players as opposed to young players they need to improve skills with. Quote (Smith) I actually like him. Maybe I just remember how bad some of our units in the past were.....but I dont have an issue with him. Wouldnt be mad if he was fired either. Our return game is better with him, but the coverage is still iffy. Quote For me, this comes down to one question: Who replaces him? Is it going to be an internal promotion? If so...no thank you. It would likely just be more of the same anyway. Outside coaches? If so, who? Off the top of my head...Chuck Pagano? Rex Ryan? Our luck they would hire ROB Ryan, and sorry, Ill take Butler over ROB Ryan every day. Answered that here: Quote There's a lot of talk about Boyer and Flores in NE as soon to be DC's, I would try to talk one of them into coming over. Especially Josh Boyer who has worked wonders with that Pat's secondary. Quote I was with you up until Ken Whisenhunt. Dont want him back at all. Never thought he was that good. Id take him over Haley, though....but Id take a swift kick in the balls over Haley. I was trying to think of someone familiar with Ben who is ready to take over the most talented offense and get results. I would love John Defillipo, QB coach for the Eagles, to come be our OC, but I'm a little worried about a first timer. I think he would bring some Pass Read Option to our offense, and with Ben, Brown, Bell, Bryant, JuJu that's a headache. That's what the Eagles have on Roids and the Eagles were good on offense this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livewire Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I would like to see two new coordinators and a secondary coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelcurtain29 Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 52 minutes ago, warfelg said: Porter (OLB): He's been given a bunch of talent and done nothing with it. He should go. Lake (DB's): He's wasted a ton of talent and blown every pet project pick he's wanted. He's got to go.Daniel (TE's): Keep him. He's got James Blocking, and has turned meh players into contributors. Prime examples of why I always felt great players make awful coaches. They likely feel talent can come natural to players like it did with themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelcurtain29 Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said: Get rid of Tomlin! And the reason behind this is......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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