CKSteeler Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: Bottom line....we arent nearly as good as some of you are acting. Good enough to win today? Yes, but its getting old seeing some act like our defense was even "good enough" when it really wasnt....especially since Shazier went down. I mean, the head coach this year crowed that they were the most talented in the league and should win it all. The players have been saying for weeks that no one should out talent them. So, let's reexamine who warped perceptions and created the expectations. Spoiled fans, or the organization starting with its head coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: On defense, I think Lake is gone. There's the scapegoat. I'd like to see Porter go, but he stays because he seems to be tight with Tomlin. The DB coach has been one of Tomlin's favorite fires along with special teams. Haley walks. Mann retires. Fitch gets promoted (not necessarily my preference - I just think they give Ben what he wants). 43 pointed out how the secondary rebuild could be a bit like the OL's. I see some young talent there that with the right person, it can be developed. Burns and Davis are salvageable to me. Mitchell has to go. He humiliated and emasculated himself too much to even try and pretend to be an enforcer back there. His play has been awful all season. If you can find someone like Munchack to coach that group up and they get another year of experience, you are one missing piece from that being the group they need them to be. They kept Allen on the roster all year. Offensively, I'd like to see them let Bell walk if the option is paying him $14m a year. I'd rather take that money and invest it into the defense. You can't pay everyone on offense. You can find instant contributors at RB. There are more and more versatile backs than ever coming out of college. As good as Bell is, you can use that money to improve the team elsewhere in more significant ways. If everyone else from this offense comes back without anything stupid happening, we may finally see them launch the assault on the record books the talent says they should have done years ago. I can agree with pretty much all of this. Id like to keep Bell, but with Ben returning, it may not be feasible. Plus he wants $15-16m, which may be more than Id like to see us pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, warfelg said: Who do you think is better than him? I think Him, Payton, Reid, Carroll are on that same level that if BB weren't coaching they would be the 4 gold standard. McCarthy falls apart too easily to be up there. Most the other coaches are far more up and down than Tomlin. Zimmer and Pederson? Probably others too, Rivera seems decent. No way any of those coaches would have had this team play like this today. Not sure about McVay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, 3rivers said: Zimmer and Pederson? Probably others too, Rivera seems decent. No way any of those coaches would have had this team play like this today. Not sure about McVay. Pederson eh.....his defense is far better than ours, so all his offense has to do is run, score 2 TD's, and not screw up (basically what they did) Zimmer I already highlighted. Rivera...being in Panthers area I can tell you no. If you don't like Tomlin you are going to hate Rivera. Same attitude, worse results. McVay....can't judge off one year but he seemed quite overmatched by Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, CKSteeler said: I mean, the head coach this year crowed that they were the most talented in the league and should win it all. The players have been saying for weeks that no one should out talent them. So, let's reexamine who warped perceptions and created the expectations. Spoiled fans, or the organization starting with its head coach? Players always say that kind of stuff. Are they supposed to admit they suck? Tomlin always tries to talk up his guys. Never heard him "crowing", though. He says they "expect" to win a championship every year. Its not like he is out there grandstanding and making guanantees like Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, 3rivers said: Zimmer and Pederson? Probably others too, Rivera seems decent. No way any of those coaches would have had this team play like this today. Not sure about McVay. Pederson and Zimmer are good, they are not better than Tomlin and McVay at rgisnpount sure as hell isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: I mean, the head coach this year crowed that they were the most talented in the league and should win it all. The players have been saying for weeks that no one should out talent them. So, let's reexamine who warped perceptions and created the expectations. Spoiled fans, or the organization starting with its head coach? Again, if the head coach comes out and says "We aren't talented and we have no hopes of winning" then he should be fired ASAP. Even Hue Jackson was pumping his team up with quotes of their going to compete and we're much better than people think. He shouldn't be fired for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said: Players always say that kind of stuff. Are they supposed to admit they suck? Tomlin always tries to talk up his guys. Never heard him "crowing", though. He says they "expect" to win a championship every year. Its not like he is out there grandstanding and making guanantees like Rex Ryan. You're in my head again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, steelcurtain29 said: So, you wanted them to make Mitchell a healthy inactive for today because he was hyped up and (albeit over)confident in his and his brothers play for the upcoming game? The next complaint if Dangerfield or Wilcox gets burnt would be "Why is Mitchell inactive? Tomlin should be fired! Stupid decision!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3rivers said: Zimmer and Pederson? Probably others too, Rivera seems decent. No way any of those coaches would have had this team play like this today. Not sure about McVay. Pederson and McVay both have one year of success. Maintaining a consistent level of success is the hardest part of being a head coach. Several years ago, Sean Peyton and Pete Carroll wouldve been put ahead of Tomlin. Peyton is absolutely worse than Tomlin and Carroll has shown his shortcomings a good bit the last 2-3 years as the Seahawks regress more an more each year. Outside of New England, who has been as consistent YEAR TO YEAR as the Steelers under Tomlin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelcurtain29 Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, warfelg said: The next complaint if Dangerfield or Wilcox gets burnt would be "Why is Mitchell inactive? Tomlin should be fired! Stupid decision!" Couldn't agree more. I don't like Mitchell at all, but he's the (by far) best of a (very) bad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, warfelg said: Again, if the head coach comes out and says "We aren't talented and we have no hopes of winning" then he should be fired ASAP. Even Hue Jackson was pumping his team up with quotes of their going to compete and we're much better than people think. He shouldn't be fired for that. There is a far cry from Tomlin's usual we are here to compete for a championship line he gives every year, and his interview with Dung where he spoke about a second meeting with NE as if it were a given. No matter what context he wanted to add to it after the fact. And his players? They took the same message because that's exactly what they've been saying for weeks now on various platforms. How often does any coach say "we should win it all?" I said it at the time, you want to make those statements, you better back them up. But you don't get to downplay them after the fact and act like you weren't providing obvious bulletin board material. And intentionally so. I wildly disagree with Tomlin in this case. Not for the bravado itself, necessarily, but because he actually thought this group of guys were mature enough to handle it and respond. I mean, this is a team I think most fans worry about showing up each week and being focused for 60 minutes. If anything (as in, it's definitely the case), some of them need their big heads to be kept in check. Instead, Tomlin decides to go the complete opposite direction and feed their massive egos some more. Because what they lack is confidence or something. Not, you know, discipline, focus, and attention to detail. What was he trying to achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, steelcurtain29 said: Couldn't agree more. I don't like Mitchell at all, but he's the (by far) best of a (very) bad situation. I agree. Having said that we all agree we need to move on from him. We got a quality special teams and the guys you mentioned do well there. But they are not the answer to replacing Mitchell. Id argue that Haden maybe should be moved to Safety if a quality cb can be had in FA over a less desireable S (or just get a quality cover safety). I feel we need to keep Haden moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, steelcurtain29 said: Couldn't agree more. I don't like Mitchell at all, but he's the (by far) best of a (very) bad situation. Like to me putting Bryant as inactive in the Lions game was an easy call. We had JuJu, Eli, DHB running well at that point. Not only do you make your point, but you put some fear in him because he knows those guys can overtake his spot. MM wouldn’t sit with the same fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: Pederson and McVay both have one year of success. Maintaining a consistent level of success is the hardest part of being a head coach. Several years ago, Sean Peyton and Pete Carroll wouldve been put ahead of Tomlin. Peyton is absolutely worse than Tomlin and Carroll has shown his shortcomings a good bit the last 2-3 years as the Seahawks regress more an more each year. Outside of New England, who has been as consistent YEAR TO YEAR as the Steelers under Tomlin? I see that some here are grading the coach with record and duration. In that case, tomlin is probably 2nd. Getting teams ready to win games they should win and play their best, no way he is second but no way I can prove this other than to say this team has greatly underachieved too often . His legacy of playing down to bad teams is what bothers me the most. But screw it, nothing will be done anyways, so just hope for the best but don't expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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