The Future of This Franchise (Coaching Staff Debate)

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

How often does any coach say "we should win it all?

Every damn year. Pay attention to other teams sometimes. 

[CKSteeler]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Every damn year. Pay attention to other teams sometimes. 

It should be easy to find specific examples then. You are being willfully dense here in your refusal to acknowledge what everyone else in the world heard in that interview.

[warfelg]

Just now, CKSteeler said:

It should be easy to find specific examples then. You are being willfully dense here in your refusal to acknowledge what everyone else in the world saw.

I’m not saying he didn’t say it. I’m saying he’s not the only coach who says it. Look at any preseason article from any projected to be good team. They all say “Yea I think we got a squad that can win it all.”

Let me out this on you:

preseason, Reporter asks Mike: “Coach do you think this team can win it all this year”

Mike: “I dunno. We’re might be good enough to make it to the playoffs. But the patriots are great and we have flaws. I don’t see us getting past the second round.”

How do you react?

[43M]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

I’m not saying he didn’t say it. I’m saying he’s not the only coach who says it. Look at any preseason article from any projected to be good team. They all say “Yea I think we got a squad that can win it all.”

Let me out this on you:

preseason, Reporter asks Mike: “Coach do you think this team can win it all this year”

Mike: “I dunno. We’re might be good enough to make it to the playoffs. But the patriots are great and we have flaws. I don’t see us getting past the second round.”

How do you react?

Yep.   Its annoying that so many Steeler fans feel the need to overanalyze everything Tomlin says in media interviews, not taking into account that alot of what is said is canned responses to give soundbytes to the media.     

If Tomlin were pulling a Rex Ryan, Id have a problem with it.      Thats not even close to what he does.      

Like Ive said before.....when we lose.....especially games where the coaching can be brought into question, nothing Tomlin says is going to sound good.....and those that already hate him will look for anything and everything to nitpick, and IMO, thats what ends up happening.   

Who cares what he says in interviews?     I care what happens on the field, win, lose or tie.     Thats it.     I didnt care for Tomlin;s coaching job today, especially in key situations, but of everything to criticize him for, what he said in interviews AFTER the game or LEADING UP to the game had no bearing on the game whatsoever.    

[MOSteelers56]

Haley and Lake need to go for sure. Probably Porter too. 

I thought Lake was going to be really good. I can’t remember if it was the flash that Cortez Allen had or getting something average out of Cockrell but I thought he was a miracle worker. He has proven that wrong for years now. We have too much talent in our secondary to waste. Bring in a good coach and maybe salvage Burns and develop Sutton, Hilton, and Allen. That’s a potentially good unit of corners. Somehow acquire a ballhawk FS and ditch Mitchell. A fixed secondary would really help and Lake isn’t the handyman I thought he was.

[CKSteeler]

28 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I’m not saying he didn’t say it. I’m saying he’s not the only coach who says it. Look at any preseason article from any projected to be good team. They all say “Yea I think we got a squad that can win it all.”

Let me out this on you:

preseason, Reporter asks Mike: “Coach do you think this team can win it all this year”

Mike: “I dunno. We’re might be good enough to make it to the playoffs. But the patriots are great and we have flaws. I don’t see us getting past the second round.”

How do you react?

The denials of what Tomlin did a few months back? That's just comical. You are going to be in for a week of Tomlin being mocked in the national media for his comments and the way his players responded to them. No one can with a straight face sit here and claim this is just some narrative I'm creating or being created by angry Steelers fans. That was not generic coach speech. It's rare that I consider an argument so disingenuous that it's insulting, but that's where we are.

Don't judge Mike on his press conferences? That part is even funnier because, well, I'll just let Mike tell us what he thinks of those things:

Quote

Dungy: “So you use that press conference to talk to the team?”

Tomlin: “No question. And that’s probably my primary function.”

Sadly, Mike is right. Talking to the media is one of his primary functions. Of course, Belichick probably considers it the least important aspect of his job because he's, you know, actually coaches.

I'm glad you two are here to tell me that all of this:

Quote

“Man, I’m going to embrace the elephant in the room," Tomlin told Dungy when asked about a looming Week 15 matchup with the Patriots in Pittsburgh. "It’s going to be fireworks. It’s probably going to be Part One, and that’s going to be a big game. But probably, if we’re both doing what we’re supposed to do, the second one" -- i.e., the AFC Championship Game in January -- "is really going to be big. And what happens in the first is going to set up the second one, and determine the location in the second one.”

...

"We can win it all," Tomlin told Dungy. "We should win it all. I sense that about the group. In terms of talent, in terms of having enough competition, depth, I think we check all those boxes. But, checking the boxes doesn’t run the race.”

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/pittsburgh-steelers-coach-mike-tomlin-breaks-all-new-england-patriots-coach-bill-belichick-rules

Of course, to cap it off, Tomlin directly contradicts the two of you in summarizing what he was doing in that conversation:

Quote

“He asked for non-coachspeak, so I was having a conversation with an old friend,” Tomlin said, via the team’s website.

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/pittsburgh-steelers-coach-mike-tomlin-breaks-all-new-england-patriots-coach-bill-belichick-rules

You can say it doesn't matter still. You can say it had no impact on the game. But the attempt to pretend that his comments were just typical coach speak is absurd.

[tima]

Todd Haley should be fired / let go for sure. It's amazing how keeps doing the same wide receiver screens over and over again that go no where every time. And I get not risking Ben on the sneaks, but you can throw it in there now and then, especially when you need it in the playoffs. And it's just stupid to throw bombs on 4th down. Yes they worked in this game but they should be doing something with a higher chance of getting the first down.

I'm also not a fan of Mike Tomlin staying. His winning percentage does not mean anything to me, when you have Ben as your QB and the defenses that the Steelers have had in his earlier years. I would bet that a lot of other coaches would have similar results. If he's not able to draft the players he wants because of the management or if it's just a group decision then why can't he be replaced with anyone else in this scenario. Does he coach the defense? or the offense? Seems like he does not to me.

I'm not really sure what he does for the team but I can see how he hurts the team:

Being a friend instead of a coach: This is his biggest problem in my opinion, and why we always have that one guy or two guys that are awful but are consistently starting ie Mitchell. How many times have we seen this guy take a horrible angle, or get penalties or hit his own teammates. Just today, the one play that stood out to me was when Bortles run for the first time for a first down. Mitchell tried to just launch himself into the RB which allowed Bortles to go outside. He should've forced Bortles inside, where Heyward was running but instead it's a 16 yard gain. Never mind the constant celebrating after the opposing team gets a first down but he gets a big hit.

Did he sit Mitchell for any games? How about any quarters? It's hard to do that to your buddy. How about Artie Burns being burned and getting interference calls over and over again in consecutive games earlier this season? Seems like benching him helped him out (slightly).

What's that? We don't have a replacement? That does not matter, put the next guy in to show that there are consequences and the playing time is not guaranteed, you may find that the replacement performs well or the benched player performs better next time. And if he doesn't perform well, then who cares, you are getting burned anyway.

Down playing to teams: This has been discussed before.

Bad decisions: The onside kick is just the latest. How about games against the Patriots, always playing the same defense that gets annihilated by Brady. This year is the first time I've seen this team actually try to win. It doesn't matter if they didn't have the personnel to play man on man before, the point is you at least try to win the game not just play into the opposing teams strengths (which you know).

I don't really care what he says to the press.

 

[Chieferific]

Tomlin is an OK coach. Not the worst. Not the best. The issue I have is they do not seem to prepare a strategy that is specific to the opposing team. The Standard is the Standard type I guess. They have the same gameplan for 31 teams. The opposing team has the worst Run Defense and Best Pass Defense. Doesn't matter. We're gonna do what we do. Your team has the best Run Defense and worst Pass Defense. Doesn't matter. We're gonna do what we do. You're missing key players at certain positions. Doesn't matter. We're gonna do what we do...etc.  It was only until this year that I rarely even saw halftime adjusts. That needs to change. 

[Livewire]

Steelers will have the 28th pick in the draft.

[Chieferific]

14 minutes ago, 1BackInBlackFan said:

Steelers will have the 28th pick in the draft.

Can we trade it for an OC?

[Livewire]

 

[warfelg]

7 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

The denials of what Tomlin did a few months back? That's just comical.

I'm not reading anymore.  You keep accusing me of denying what he said.  I didn't once say he never said it.

I'M NOT DENYING HE DIDN'T SAY WE SHOULD WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

I'M NOT DENYING HE DIDN'T SAY WE SHOULD WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

I'M NOT DENYING HE DIDN'T SAY WE SHOULD WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

What I'm saying is him saying it has little bearing on my opinion of him as a coach.

Quote

"This award is very meaningful to me, mostly because I get to be associated with this and to be associated with Nancy. It's incredible and I really appreciate you, and we're going to win a Super Bowl next year. Thank you."

~Tony Romo 2015

Quote

"We can win the Super Bowl with Drew Stanton," Arians told theMMQB.com's Peter King after the Cardinals dispatched the Rams on Sunday. "There is no doubt in my mind."

~Bruce Arians 2014

I know this guy is a former coach:

Quote

“There’s no question they can do it,” Reeves told AtlantaFalcons.com. “If their defense can get some turnovers – and that’s what they’ve been doing – the offense puts an awful lot of pressure on the other team. Their pass rush has gotten better. Everybody was giving (Vic) Beasley such a hard time, and the kid has really come alive. If he could be a great defensive player in the playoffs, you’ve got enough talent – without question.”

~Dan Reeves, Jan 4 2017

Quote

January 21, 2009

It didn't take long for Ryan to do it the first time. In his introductory press conference as head coach of the Jets, Ryan implied that his team was going to take a trip to the White House after winning an upcoming Super Bowl.

"With all the cameras and all that, I was looking for our new president back there. You know, I think we'll get to meet him in the next couple years anyway," Ryan said.

2009 Jets finish: Lost in AFC Championship game

August 5, 2010:

At training camp a year and a half later, Ryan signed a visiting ESPN bus.

The inscription?

“Soon to be champs.”

2010 Jets finish: Lost in AFC Championship game

February 11, 2011

After falling short in the AFC title game for the second straight year, Ryan doubled down on an interview with MSG.

“There’s no way we don’t get it done next year," he said. "Next year I know we’ll win it.”

February 24, 2011

When asked about his comments two weeks later at the NFL combine, Ryan didn't back away from them.

“I believe this is the year that we’re going to win the Super Bowl. I thought we’d win it the first two years. I guarantee we’ll win it this year,” Ryan said.

2011 Jets finish: Missed playoffs

August 18, 2015

After going 0-for-5 with the Jets, Ryan decided to start fresh as head coach of the Bills.

"I'm not a Super Bowl-winning coach, but I'm getting ready to be," Ryan said. "And it's going to happen."

2015 Bills finish: To be determined

~Rex Ryan

 

 

Coaches make statements like this a lot.  Players make statements like this a lot.  I would be more disturbed if he didn't say it when speaking candidly.  I mean where's what even he said about it:

Quote

"He asked for non coach speak, so I was having a conversation with an old friend. You know I got respect for this process. We got a good football team. I got a great deal of confidence in them."

So we kill him over canned responses.  Now we kill him over candid talk.

I guess he should never talk again right?

[jebrick]

Bottom line...The defense was changed to challenge NE passing game.  This made them vulnerable vs power running teams.  They have had issues all season with runs to the edge. Without Shazier ( and Timmons) they have zero speed sideline-to-sideline speed.  Playing the D-line as single gap makes them vulnerable to runs up the middle, which has be exploited by teams with mediocre olines.

The Jags were the perfect team to beat the Steelers.  They would have done much better vs NE.  It is also why the Titans have beaten the Jags twice and get killed vs NE.

 

I personally feel that they need to move to a hybrid defense.  Two players playing 2 gap in the middle and two playing single gap.  One DE can be exchanged for a OLB depending on the game.

[August4th]

 

[43M]

17 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Bottom line...The defense was changed to challenge NE passing game.  This made them vulnerable vs power running teams.  They have had issues all season with runs to the edge. Without Shazier ( and Timmons) they have zero speed sideline-to-sideline speed.  Playing the D-line as single gap makes them vulnerable to runs up the middle, which has be exploited by teams with mediocre olines.

The Jags were the perfect team to beat the Steelers.  They would have done much better vs NE.  It is also why the Titans have beaten the Jags twice and get killed vs NE.

 

I personally feel that they need to move to a hybrid defense.  Two players playing 2 gap in the middle and two playing single gap.  One DE can be exchanged for a OLB depending on the game.

Yep....this game is all about matchups.    

We didnt match up favorably vs the Jags.    Not that we CANT beat them, but as you said, they are built in such a way that can give us issues...and that they did.