The Future of This Franchise (Coaching Staff Debate)

[3rivers]

47 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Tomlin...here is the thing, this is gonna be long winded. 

Tomlin isnt a great clock manager and just like today makes bad decisions in critical situations.

The onside kick was a bad decision made for the right reason. He didnt believe the defense good force a 3 and out, did we?

The 4th down calls were terrible outside of the 2 that resulted in tds. Ben checking out of a run to throw the ball which failed speaks about his faith in Haleys play calling.

Tomlin isnt Bellichick but he is the 2nd best HC in the league. 

Todd Haley runs a cookie cutter offense, predictable, and mostly ineffective. He needs to be fired.

Everyone involved with developing LBs needs to be fired. Does this really need explanation? The talent isnt necessarily there but the potential that is, well its not being developed into a useful product on the field.

Im on the fence about Carnell Lake. I have my doubts about his ability to develop players as well. The talent hasny been spectacular but we took a very raw Burns for him to develop as well as Sean Davis. Both are not without talent but imo are without progression.

Keith Butler needs to go. Its time for REAL CHANGE on defense, maybe as much as a complete scheme change.

are you serious? This isn't believable. 

agree about sheme change on D if we have the right players.

[August4th]

the pass rush from the D-line disappeared over the last part of the season....

[warfelg]

Just now, 3rivers said:

are you serious? This isn't believable. 

agree about sheme change on D if we have the right players.

Who do you think is better than him?  I think Him, Payton, Reid, Carroll are on that same level that if BB weren't coaching they would be the 4 gold standard.  McCarthy falls apart too easily to be up there.  Most the other coaches are far more up and down than Tomlin.

[warfelg]

Just now, August4th said:

the pass rush from the D-line disappeared over the last part of the season....

Because teams figured out our OLB were told to contain and they could could double Hayward and Tuitt with no recourse because the only blitz we ran was Hilton on a corner.

[VigilantZombie]

Yes Im dead fn serious. Every coach makes bad decisions. Granted Tomlin does it a lot. But he runs a team that continues to be in the hunt. Im not trying to absolve him of his short comings or make excuses for him. But what I said is arguable at the very least.

[43M]

3 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Look at all the penalties.

What does this even mean?

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 His team consistently plays down to the level of competition instead of dominating. 

Would you rather dominate more games and go 8-8?

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The Steelers have by far the best roster in the NFL. 

What?

Maybe the most talented OFFENSE....but overall roster?    BY FAR?

Clueless man.....clueless.

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Shazier's loss hurt a lot, but it was still ten times more talented than the Shaguars. 

They have far far far more talent on defense.

We have more talent on offense....but the disaprity isnt nearly as much.

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Underachieving. 

Our loaded offense put up 40 points today. 

Our lacking defense couldnt stop their offense.

Its not underachieving.    We lost a game (2 actually) against a team we didnt match up well against.   
 

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Players running their mouths.  It's a circus. 

It starts with him.

 

Yes, because Tomlin is responsible for what his players SAY.

This entire post makes me sad.

[3rivers]

42 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

45 minutes ago, warfelg said:

And here's my thing on both of these:

We recover that kick, convert on 4th....we're talking about how great those moves were and how being ballsy paid off.

if we recover and then win , we go to  NE and get killed if we play like we did today. The fraud continues , bu I say it's better to lose and fix problems that the loss proved. 

I  thought of the onside kick before they lined up, that was how much faith I had in the D. This is the most hopeless the D has been since (enter date here) . The D couldn't stop anything the jags did today, they made the jags look like the 1989  SF 49ers.

[43M]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Who do you think is better than him?  I think Him, Payton, Reid, Carroll are on that same level that if BB weren't coaching they would be the 4 gold standard.  McCarthy falls apart too easily to be up there.  Most the other coaches are far more up and down than Tomlin.

I wouldnt put him at 2, but you are right.....outside of Belichick, no one else has shown the ongoing consistency YEAR TO YEAR that Tomlin's teams have.     

Right now, Zimmer is the only other one Id DEFINITELY take.   Guys like Pederson and McVay are "up and coming", but we will see how consistent they are over their first 5-7 years.

[CKSteeler]

As fun and therapeutic as ranting about Mike's embarrassing month is (and it was a bad month - nearly every decision he's made going back to that Dungy interview has been poor), I'll get on with what I actually see and hope might happen this year.

On defense, I think Lake is gone. There's the scapegoat. I'd like to see Porter go, but he stays because he seems to be tight with Tomlin. The DB coach has been one of Tomlin's favorite fires along with special teams. Haley walks. Mann retires. Fitch gets promoted (not necessarily my preference - I just think they give Ben what he wants).

43 pointed out how the secondary rebuild could be a bit like the OL's. I see some young talent there that with the right person, it can be developed. Burns and Davis are salvageable to me. Mitchell has to go. He humiliated and emasculated himself too much to even try and pretend to be an enforcer back there. His play has been awful all season. If you can find someone like Munchack to coach that group up and they get another year of experience, you are one missing piece from that being the group they need them to be. They kept Allen on the roster all year.

Offensively, I'd like to see them let Bell walk if the option is paying him $14m a year. I'd rather take that money and invest it into the defense. You can't pay everyone on offense. You can find instant contributors at RB. There are more and more versatile backs than ever coming out of college. As good as Bell is, you can use that money to improve the team elsewhere in more significant ways.

If everyone else from this offense comes back without anything stupid happening, we may finally see them launch the assault on the record books the talent says they should have done years ago.

[3rivers]

14 minutes ago, steelcurtain29 said:

As for the penalties, I want to believe you; but that's banter. You're showing me nothing that penalties / yards spiked because of him.
Team does always seem unprepared. No idea who to really blame there.

Best roster? I don't think so. Defense just got lit up for 45. Let that sink in.

What's Tomlin to do about players actions off the field though? He's a coach, not a babysitter. What do you want him to do?

some coaches need to instil discpiline and at times might be babysitting.  Not much effort required, tell the players here is the code of conduct and if you break it you are a healthy scratch. simple

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Yes Im dead fn serious. Every coach makes bad decisions. Granted Tomlin does it a lot. But he runs a team that continues to be in the hunt. Im not trying to absolve him of his short comings or make excuses for him. But what I said is arguable at the very least.

I call it the "not watching enough games disease".  It's like in week 17 when someone said "everyone gets their firsts against the Steelers" after the Peppers INT.  Not it's not that everyone does it only against the Steelers.  It's that they don't watch other team enough to see how often it happens to other teams.

I think it's the same thing with Tomlin.  We only see the bad decisions he makes so it's that other coaches don't do it.  Riverboat Rivera is Ron Rivera's nickname because he takes risks like Tomlin, but has a much lower success rate.  Sean Peyton just ran it against the best run defense in the NFL on 3rd down with an on fire Brees; he also challenged and lose twice in the second half, costing his team late TO's.  Dan Quinn let a rollout on 4th and goal be called.  You don't think those were bad decisions?  They were terrible.  But because some people don't watch those games with the same level of scrutiny, then they don't realize that those coaches make as many mistakes.

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I wouldnt put him at 2, but you are right.....outside of Belichick, no one else has shown the ongoing consistency YEAR TO YEAR that Tomlin's teams have.     

Right now, Zimmer is the only other one Id DEFINITELY take.   Guys like Pederson and McVay are "up and coming", but we will see how consistent they are over their first 5-7 years.

I'm iffy on Zimmer.  He's less risk adverse than Tomlin but IMO not as consistent.

[43M]

3 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

if we recover and then win , we go to  NE and get killed if we play like we did today. The fraud continues

What fraud?    We got beat by a team we didnt match up well against.  

Any Steeler fans acting like we were a much better team than the Jags is clueless.     

We have a big play offense and an atrocious defense that lacks BOTH talent and discipline.

They have a stingy, opportunistic defense with a balanced offense.

Our coaches made several bad decisions today.    Some of our players put us in bad situations.

Bottom line....we arent nearly as good as some of you are acting.    Good enough to win today?  Yes, but its getting old seeing some act like our defense was even "good enough" when it really wasnt....especially since Shazier went down.

[steelcurtain29]

5 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

some coaches need to instil discpiline and at times might be babysitting.  Not much effort required, tell the players here is the code of conduct and if you break it you are a healthy scratch. simple

So, you wanted them to make Mitchell a healthy inactive for today because he was hyped up and (albeit over)confident in his and his brothers play for the upcoming game?

[DudeWhat???]

We have one of the most successful young coaches in the league...getting rid of him is pure stupidity... it’s down right cowardly to abandon the steeler method at this point... grow a pair seriously. ... we are one the winningest teams in the league and the only team near us is a documented cheater... the head coach stays the decision around staff is the question... oc and dc. Man up...I hated that we lost but grow a pair and think clearly ... we are not about to go through what every other team is going through... coach carousels and such....that is for the spineless. We are almost there.. defense needs some serious playmakers and running sweeps on 4th and 1 on a small defensive line is an offensive coordinator nightmare ... facts