4th and a foot

[Lambert44]

I think Carl Lawson is a very good pass rusher for the Bengals - especially for a rookie.

We passed on him for Connor......

I think he is a better pass rusher than all of our OLB's!

 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Lambert44 said:

I think Carl Lawson is a very good pass rusher for the Bengals - especially for a rookie.

We passed on him for Connor......

I think he is a better pass rusher than all of our OLB's!

 

Situational 4-3 DE.  That's all he was for them.  I think he ended up only playing about 40% of the snaps.

[3rivers]

8 hours ago, JLambert58 said:

I disagree.  Bud may be lacking technique and "teaching" but after watching him the last few years, I think he lacks passion, energy, determination, fight, and swagger.  His vanilla energy is NOT what this defense needs.  

I always thought dupree had good effort when chasing down people , will to hit was decent , but he has no Pass rush technique, slow off the snap and worst of all never a counter move.  An athlete more than a football player and no passion or leadership traits.  Better off with a failure at the combine that has guts and can improve. Dupree has stats after this season, but he really isn't any better.  I would trade him because if a player can't improve after 3 years when will he? Problem with the steelers is they will let him play out his contract and go from there, they did with Jarvis and Hood as well and I doubt they have learned. Trade him while you can,  draft a player that is quick off the snap and has more speed for example . Oko or Armstrong should be available in RD2 or later according to walter football as of now anyways.

As for the QB sneak, with 2 probowlers on the interior, why not?  Bell running would be option #2 . Did ben try to change the call , what really happened ?

 

[3rivers]

8 hours ago, Lambert44 said:

I think Carl Lawson is a very good pass rusher for the Bengals - especially for a rookie.

We passed on him for Connor......

I think he is a better pass rusher than all of our OLB's!

 

agree, and I thought he was  RD1  IIRC, and when he was there late I watched the bungles get a steal. We had 3+ chances to get a good Pass rusher, and passed.  Watt is going to be a starter legit, but he isn't the natural pass rusher that Lawson is yet I am glad we got Watt.  Too bad we couldn't have traded with he teams ahead of us in RD4 though and  get Lawson then. He would probably stand on the sidelines anyways, so good for him that he is playing instead. 

[CKSteeler]

The sneak was never on the table. Haley's quote on this basically sums up what we all know - they refuse to run it to 'protect' Ben from hits. Which is very curious. I can't recall a single QB getting hurt on these in the entire time I've watched football. But somehow, the braintrust has decided that Ben needs to be protected from them.

I mean, is Haley graded on how many hits Ben takes through a game/season? Something tells me he might have been. This was all part of the mandate to change Ben/reduce the hits he takes.

That still doesn't excuse, of all the play calls, an outside toss against this defense. Especially when everything horizontal you ran on them had failed.

[JLambert58]

3 hours ago, 3rivers said:

I always thought dupree had good effort when chasing down people , will to hit was decent , but he has no Pass rush technique, slow off the snap and worst of all never a counter move.  An athlete more than a football player and no passion or leadership traits.

Dupree's signature move is backdoor tackling the RB.  Which is fine, but by itself, not enough.  He does not love football the way Shazier does.  It's obvious he's an athletic freak with modest aggression and desire.  

[warfelg]

7 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Dupree's signature move is backdoor tackling the RB.  Which is fine, but by itself, not enough.  He does not love football the way Shazier does.  It's obvious he's an athletic freak with modest aggression and desire.  

Without knowing him personally I wouldn’t say that. 

 

What if he does love it and he’s just getting crap coaching that’s not giving him the tools to succeed? 

I mean if I were his coach, with his explosiveness I would give him 3 things to do this offseason:

~ Go learn to rock climb. Your core, hands, and feet will become so much stronger than they are right now. This will give him heavy hands. 

~ Go take MMA and Boxing lessons. Learn to use your hands to fight and how to keep someone off your body. 

~ Take a dance class. Learn to use your feet well without having to think about it. 

When he comes back for minicamps I would test him on all of that. 50 foot wall, scale it. Here’s a sparring partner, get 15 touches in 5 minutes without being touched more than 5 times. Here’s a song, show me you can improv dance to it. 

If he can do all of that he can become a good pass rusher. The problem is he doesn’t know how to use his hands. He doesn’t wiggle because he’s never had anyone teach him. He can’t plan 5 steps ahead because no one has force him. 

If he can do all of that, he can finally be ready to learn pass rush moves. 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

Without knowing him personally I wouldn’t say that. 

 

What if he does love it and he’s just getting crap coaching that’s not giving him the tools to succeed? 

I mean if I were his coach, with his explosiveness I would give him 3 things to do this offseason:

~ Go learn to rock climb. Your core, hands, and feet will become so much stronger than they are right now. This will give him heavy hands. 

~ Go take MMA and Boxing lessons. Learn to use your hands to fight and how to keep someone off your body. 

~ Take a dance class. Learn to use your feet well without having to think about it. 

When he comes back for minicamps I would test him on all of that. 50 foot wall, scale it. Here’s a sparring partner, get 15 touches in 5 minutes without being touched more than 5 times. Here’s a song, show me you can improv dance to it. 

If he can do all of that he can become a good pass rusher. The problem is he doesn’t know how to use his hands. He doesn’t wiggle because he’s never had anyone teach him. He can’t plan 5 steps ahead because no one has force him. 

If he can do all of that, he can finally be ready to learn pass rush moves. 

what explosiveness? He is slow off the snap and no faster than any of the other OLB's. I would say he is slower than the other 3.  

I agree that if Porter isn't getting the players to improve accordingly, then time to move on, same with Lake.   I am tired of people defending coaches or players that have proved they deserve the critics.

[CKSteeler]

Dupree hasn't hit anyone since the Detroit game. That's pretty disappointing. Harrison has looked better in limited action with NE. By far.

Tomlin wanted to be done with Harrison years ago. For whatever reason.

[3rivers]

15 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Dupree hasn't hit anyone since the Detroit game. That's pretty disappointing. Harrison has looked better in limited action with NE. By far.

Tomlin wanted to be done with Harrison years ago. For whatever reason.

Harrison has the skills and knowledge and now a great coach. He has lost some speed etc, but could be dangerous at any time. Dupree OTOH,  should be traded. If we can't get a better OLB in UFA or first 3 rounds of the draft , then this team needs help at the recruitment centre .

[Steeler Hitman]

18 hours ago, wwhickok said:

 I really don't think Bud Dupree lacks ability or potential what I do think is that he lacks a proper teacher I think his biggest issue and somebody hit on this previously is how he uses his hands and his ability to diagnose the offense and I think those are all things that can be worked on but you need the proper teacher. You've got to have a guy that's capable of teaching you what to look for on the opposing offense and he's got to have a guy capable of showing you how to use better technique when using your hands to fight off blockers and get to the quarterback I just don't think that we have those teachers on this coaching staff.

I know that during this past off season, Bud Dupree was working with former Atlanta Falcons Edge Rusher Chuck Smith at his training center/camp. I was expecting Bud to have at least 8 sacks with the optimistic potential of reaching double digits. TJ Watt is new to the position and Anthony Chickillo started the season strong, but I do not believe that he had a sack the final eight games.  Joey Porter is a strong motivator and players coach, but after he got into trouble with the bar incident their was talk that Porter may have been let go and another OLB Coach brought in like Kevin Green who signed with the Jets I believe.

This off season, I am sure that Porter, Carnell Lake, DB's and even the Keith Butler, DC tenure will be discussed as well as OC Todd Haley.

[JLambert58]

16 hours ago, warfelg said:

Without knowing him personally I wouldn’t say that. 

 

What if he does love it and he’s just getting crap coaching that’s not giving him the tools to succeed? 

I mean if I were his coach, with his explosiveness I would give him 3 things to do this offseason:

~ Go learn to rock climb. Your core, hands, and feet will become so much stronger than they are right now. This will give him heavy hands. 

~ Go take MMA and Boxing lessons. Learn to use your hands to fight and how to keep someone off your body. 

~ Take a dance class. Learn to use your feet well without having to think about it. 

When he comes back for minicamps I would test him on all of that. 50 foot wall, scale it. Here’s a sparring partner, get 15 touches in 5 minutes without being touched more than 5 times. Here’s a song, show me you can improv dance to it. 

If he can do all of that he can become a good pass rusher. The problem is he doesn’t know how to use his hands. He doesn’t wiggle because he’s never had anyone teach him. He can’t plan 5 steps ahead because no one has force him. 

If he can do all of that, he can finally be ready to learn pass rush moves. 

Maybe you should be coaching the linebackers. 

Good thoughts and I agree that cross-training would be a step in the right direction - especially the first two.  But I don't think you can ONLY chalk up his mediocre play to mediocre coaching.  Sure, that's one element, but after 3 years, he should be professional enough to learn what he needs to learn without having his hand held.  One of the reason James Harrison is/was effective is because he REALLY, REALLY WANTS to be.  I just don't see that with Dupree.  The reason I was never a fan of his coming out of college:  Just don't see that fierce, ferocious desire to be a great football player.  After 3 years, I think we have the answer to that question.  Can he be decent just based on average want-to and top notch athleticism?  Sure.   But is that who we really want at OLB?  I for one, say NO.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JLambert58 said:

Maybe you should be coaching the linebackers. 

Good thoughts and I agree that cross-training would be a step in the right direction - especially the first two.  But I don't think you can ONLY chalk up his mediocre play to mediocre coaching.  Sure, that's one element, but after 3 years, he should be professional enough to learn what he needs to learn without having his hand held.  One of the reason James Harrison is/was effective is because he REALLY, REALLY WANTS to be.  I just don't see that with Dupree.  The reason I was never a fan of his coming out of college:  Just don't see that fierce, ferocious desire to be a great football player.  After 3 years, I think we have the answer to that question.  Can he be decent just based on average want-to and top notch athleticism?  Sure.   But is that who we really want at OLB?  I for one, say NO.

Just out of curiosity, do you follow him on IG, Twitter, snapchat?  He is always posting workouts especially in the offseason.  The problem I see is (from the 1 Steelers TC I've been to), when he does do something wrong, he's not really coached on it.  Harrison (I was at this years TC) stood off to the side talking to no one, TJ Watt and Dupree were working hard, and Moats was going through the motion.  Porter was so focused on Adams that when Bud and TJ did something wrong, he just told them to do it again without correcting them.  In fact I saw the OL players teaching Bud more on hand fighting than Porter.

[Lambert44]

21 hours ago, warfelg said:

Situational 4-3 DE.  That's all he was for them.  I think he ended up only playing about 40% of the snaps.

In that 40% he had 8 1/2 sacks!

[warfelg]

Just now, Lambert44 said:

In that 40% he had 8 1/2 sacks!

Ok?  Easy to do when literally that's all you are asked to do.  Elvis Dumervil had 6.5 snaps in 30% of snaps played.  Better rate than Lawson right?  Dante Fowler had 8 sacks on 44% snaps played!

 

Arthur Moats had 4 sacks in 9% of snaps!!!  That's 16 in 40% of snaps!!