Dashing202 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: He can't IIRC. When he was in, he played outside and I think Bree or Fuller played inside Only reason I think he will come is because of Allen and talib past Bucs relationshions . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, lavar703 said: He's old and we aren't competing for Super Bowls any time soon. This trade isn't good. It wouldn't have been good for a third rounder but it's absolutely horrific when you include Fuller. It's one of the dumbest trades I've ever seen this team make and this is why I said you have to get Bruce out of here. Instead we fire McCloughan. So, basically we are saying the same thing. I think you’re missing the context of my post. I clearly said I didn’t like the trade but at the same time we can do worse at qb than Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dashing202 said: Only reason I think he will come is because of Allen and talib past Bucs relationshions . Maybe I’d be down as long as we don’t over pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, Dashing202 said: Thank you dude What's your take on smith tho on his time with KC. And fuller an amazing slot corner idk why we gave him away . I'm appreciative of his time here. As a QB he has a couple of clear limitations and flaws. He overcame some of them this year, but not all. His first 4 years here, he basically never threw deep, and when he did, he was too afraid of INTs to really place the ball properly (he tended to overthrow when a receiver had a step on the DB to ensure the DB couldn't tip it or anything, which meant some big misses.) That, he corrected this year. He was money on deep passes and he attempted them about as much as a good QB could. That was the big difference in his play this year. He's always been great at utilizing backs and TEs, the flats and the middle of the field, this year he expanded his accuracy downfield and to the sideline. This improvement, combined with his normal good decision making, good mobility, and good accuracy, made him a top 5ish QB this year. Some flaws continued this year. He still isn't a guy who is going to throw contested passes. He looks for clear space and receivers with a step on a DB, he won't throw to receivers with just a positioning or height advantage. It limits him a bit in the red zone and on long down and distance. You could field a team with Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Calvin Johnson, Gronk, and Tony Gonzalez, and he's still not going to throw a jump ball. He sees the rush far too quickly and reacts to it in a very conservative way. We've had solid pass blocking OLs his whole time here but he's always in that 35 - 40 sack range. A play every game or two where he thinks the rush has the OL beat and just kind of tucks it and runs forward into traffic. And while his deep accuracy was great this year, his intermediate accuracy still struggles, for some reason. He also generally does his best in a kind of gimmicky offense. We employed a lot of college style things this year. The Reid tree is known for that. I don't know who your OC is right now, but if he's too rigid he may not take full advantage of him. He's a good QB. Last year, he was better than Cousins. We had better weapons, certainly, but no better than what you guys had in prior years, IMO (Reed, Jackson, Garcon, and Crowder is a comparable set to Kelce, Hill, Hunt, and ???) I'd say you're basically trading youth for reliability. Smith will throw about half as many INTs and fumble about half as often as Cousins. He's just super short term, and won't make the potentially game saving throws Cousins might try. I'm curious to see how much money Cousins gets. If you're willing to give Smith $23M per year or whatever it was, Cousins has to be gunning for like $30M or something. I'm just glad KC worked to send him to a team that doesn't completely suck. It's sounding like Cleveland pushed for him hard, and with the John Dorsey connection that makes sense, but Smith deserves better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Maybe I’d be down as long as we don’t over pay. We might lol I was being positive about the FO but I see us going Vinny this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: I'm appreciative of his time here. As a QB he has a couple of clear limitations and flaws. He overcame some of them this year, but not all. His first 4 years here, he basically never threw deep, and when he did, he was too afraid of INTs to really place the ball properly (he tended to overthrow when a receiver had a step on the DB to ensure the DB couldn't tip it or anything, which meant some big misses.) That, he corrected this year. He was money on deep passes and he attempted them about as much as a good QB could. That was the big difference in his play this year. He's always been great at utilizing backs and TEs, the flats and the middle of the field, this year he expanded his accuracy downfield and to the sideline. This improvement, combined with his normal good decision making, good mobility, and good accuracy, made him a top 5ish QB this year. Some flaws continued this year. He still isn't a guy who is going to throw contested passes. He looks for clear space and receivers with a step on a DB, he won't throw to receivers with just a positioning or height advantage. It limits him a bit in the red zone and on long down and distance. You could field a team with Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Calvin Johnson, Gronk, and Tony Gonzalez, and he's still not going to throw a jump ball. He sees the rush far too quickly and reacts to it in a very conservative way. We've had solid pass blocking OLs his whole time here but he's always in that 35 - 40 sack range. A play every game or two where he thinks the rush has the OL beat and just kind of tucks it and runs forward into traffic. And while his deep accuracy was great this year, his intermediate accuracy still struggles, for some reason. He also generally does his best in a kind of gimmicky offense. We employed a lot of college style things this year. The Reid tree is known for that. I don't know who your OC is right now, but if he's too rigid he may not take full advantage of him. He's a good QB. Last year, he was better than Cousins. We had better weapons, certainly, but no better than what you guys had in prior years, IMO (Reed, Jackson, Garcon, and Crowder is a comparable set to Kelce, Hill, Hunt, and ???) I'd say you're basically trading youth for reliability. Smith will throw about half as many INTs and fumble about half as often as Cousins. He's just super short term, and won't make the potentially game saving throws Cousins might try. I'm curious to see how much money Cousins gets. If you're willing to give Smith $23M per year or whatever it was, Cousins has to be gunning for like $30M or something. I'm just glad KC worked to send him to a team that doesn't completely suck. It's sounding like Cleveland pushed for him hard, and with the John Dorsey connection that makes sense, but Smith deserves better than that. Great post ! Fuller amazing you'll love him. He makes plays . Lol we gonna ruin smith career lol we love to do that to not just the Browns ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, turtle28 said: So, I’ll make this point for the 3rd or 4th time. We still have 7 draft picks, we can still and probably will draft a QB to develop. Well probably wait and draft the guy from Western Kentucky, Luke Faulk or the guy from Richmond in round 4. We still could've done this and rolled with Colt. And kept a 3rd rounder and Fuller. I'd rather have Colt, a 3rd rounder and Fuller plus one of those QBs, than Smith at 71m guaranteed, no 3rd and no Fuller and one of those QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Ok. I gotta go to bed. I have to be up in 5 hours. Rules still apply fellas. Be nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Your D was lightyears ahead of ours Not last year. At all. I'm telling you, you're letting past Chiefs teams cloud your vision. We were 28th in yards allowed, 27th in yards per play, 25th in sacks, 23rd on third down, 28th in expected points. We all wanted our DC fired for a reason. We wound up mediocre in scoring purely because our offense didn't turn the ball over, so our defense had the 3rd best starting field position in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: I'm appreciative of his time here. As a QB he has a couple of clear limitations and flaws. He overcame some of them this year, but not all. His first 4 years here, he basically never threw deep, and when he did, he was too afraid of INTs to really place the ball properly (he tended to overthrow when a receiver had a step on the DB to ensure the DB couldn't tip it or anything, which meant some big misses.) That, he corrected this year. He was money on deep passes and he attempted them about as much as a good QB could. That was the big difference in his play this year. He's always been great at utilizing backs and TEs, the flats and the middle of the field, this year he expanded his accuracy downfield and to the sideline. This improvement, combined with his normal good decision making, good mobility, and good accuracy, made him a top 5ish QB this year. Some flaws continued this year. He still isn't a guy who is going to throw contested passes. He looks for clear space and receivers with a step on a DB, he won't throw to receivers with just a positioning or height advantage. It limits him a bit in the red zone and on long down and distance. You could field a team with Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Calvin Johnson, Gronk, and Tony Gonzalez, and he's still not going to throw a jump ball. He sees the rush far too quickly and reacts to it in a very conservative way. We've had solid pass blocking OLs his whole time here but he's always in that 35 - 40 sack range. A play every game or two where he thinks the rush has the OL beat and just kind of tucks it and runs forward into traffic. And while his deep accuracy was great this year, his intermediate accuracy still struggles, for some reason. He also generally does his best in a kind of gimmicky offense. We employed a lot of college style things this year. The Reid tree is known for that. I don't know who your OC is right now, but if he's too rigid he may not take full advantage of him. He's a good QB. Last year, he was better than Cousins. We had better weapons, certainly, but no better than what you guys had in prior years, IMO (Reed, Jackson, Garcon, and Crowder is a comparable set to Kelce, Hill, Hunt, and ???) I'd say you're basically trading youth for reliability. Smith will throw about half as many INTs and fumble about half as often as Cousins. He's just super short term, and won't make the potentially game saving throws Cousins might try. I'm curious to see how much money Cousins gets. If you're willing to give Smith $23M per year or whatever it was, Cousins has to be gunning for like $30M or something. Sounds like we’re trading a younger version of Cousins for an older version of Cousins and saving $5 to $10 million in cap space while doing so which opens up room to re-sign Zach Brown right away. What sucks is we gave up arguably our best corner last year - Kendall Fuller - to get Smith which is a major loss for us. Truthfully, I expect that Alex Smith will be just like what he was for you last year. He’ll throw for around or just over 4,000 yards, 25 or more TDs and have less than 10 ints. We will miss Kendall Fuller - you guys got a heck of a steal - but if Norman is healthy next year and Dunbar, Moreau and Holsey develop into better players than they were this year - which I expect they will - we will be fine at corner. We should also have money to now go out and sign a WR upgrade to go opposite Doctson. Maybe Albert Wilson because Smith will vouch for him and may want him. And we’ll have money to sign a NT. Trully a horrible trade for us but it could have been a lot worse. Losing Kirk and only having Colt McCoy as an option and just a rookie to replace him was a worse option. I think we’ll still draft a qb to develop but probably not in round 1. Hopefully we get a stud defender or WR in round 1 and a starting rb in round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dashing202 said: We might lol I was being positive about the FO but I see us going Vinny this year. Doubt it, Allen is cheap. Even with qb. He and Schafer had a # in their head to pay a starting qb and Kirk didn’t want to sign that deal so they traded for Alex Smith and it sounds like they gave Smith a simultaneous deal to the one that Kirk turned down last summer. I heard the Redskins were also in the chase for Calias Campbell last year but he got to expensive and so they decided to sign McClain and MCGee thinking that getting two guys for a lesser price would be ok. The same thing happened in 2014 when we lost out on Mike Mitchell to the Steelers and instead signed the ultimate stop gap in Ryan Clark who already had one foot in ESPN’s studios. So, Bruce will continue to remain cheap. He’s not going to splurge in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Not last year. At all. I'm telling you, you're letting past Chiefs teams cloud your vision. We were 28th in yards allowed, 27th in yards per play, 25th in sacks, 23rd on third down, 28th in expected points. We all wanted our DC fired for a reason. We wound up mediocre in scoring purely because our offense didn't turn the ball over, so our defense had the 3rd best starting field position in the NFL. No offense, but the Redskins defense was worse. We all understand that the Chiefs D wasn’t good either, but the Redskins D was worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, turtle28 said: No offense, but the Redskins defense was worse. We all understand that the Chiefs D wasn’t good either, but the Redskins D was worse. First of all, statistics disagree. Second, he said KC's was light years ahead, so I'm not sure everyone does understand that the Chiefs D was quite bad last year. We were carried by the offense. Top 5 offense, bottom 5 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: We still could've done this and rolled with Colt. And kept a 3rd rounder and Fuller. I'd rather have Colt, a 3rd rounder and Fuller plus one of those QBs, than Smith at 71m guaranteed, no 3rd and no Fuller and one of those QBs That wasn’t the point I was arguing. Lavar keeps acting like now we won’t draft a qb and it’s clearly true that we still may and probably will still drsft a qb wr some point. Also, outside of losing Fuller which totally upsets me and I hate it, the rest of it doesn’t. If Kirk wasn’t going to stay or if the front office just frankly didn’t want him anymore then it was time to move on. I hate that thatbis the truth, but apparently it is and it has been for a few years. Since that’s the case, I don’t mind getting an Alex Smith. There’s no doubt he was out best option at qb in free agency or of which was available through trade. I think it’s pretty obvious for the immediate future and probably for the next 5 years Smith would be a better option than some of the other guys we could have gotten in free agency like the guys coming off injury like Bradford or Bridgewater or signing for trading for the unknown like AJ McCarron. It also makes me do a face palm that now 3 of the guys who fought me over having Colt as our starter now would rather have him starting than Alex Smith. I do realize why because Colt is cheaper and worse so you think it’d lead to a higher draft pick next year but still it’s funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: First of all, statistics disagree. Second, he said KC's was light years ahead, so I'm not sure everyone does understand that the Chiefs D was quite bad last year. We were carried by the offense. Top 5 offense, bottom 5 defense. Have you studied the Redskins defensive stats or have you watched 16 games of the Redskins defense? We’re talking about a defense that gave up 38 points to the Vikings at home, gave up two late TDs in the final few minutes in New Orleans and so lost a game we had won and couldn’t come close to stopping the Chargers as we got blown out of the building. We gave up over 5 ypc rushing I believe on 1st down. Our 3rd down defense wasn’t historically bad like 2016 but it wasn’t much better, we couldn’t get off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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