Sam Darnold

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Just because you like a prospect doesn't mean you can shout "media creation!" at his weaknesses. His problem isn't "mental processing" as in going through reads. It's "mental processing" as in figuring out what the defense is going to do based on the pre-snap and not getting too confident in his ability. Most of his INTs are where the defense baits him (the OSU picks) or where he's just overconfident with his abilities. Both probably improve with further coaching and experience. But that doesn't mean they weren't issues.

At this point I'm just ready to check out of the QB convo because everyone has picked their guy and seem to be ignoring/minimizing their guy's weaknesses while either blowing up or making up weaknesses for the others. Rosen doesn't go through progressions but RPO Darnold does them wonderfully. Jeez. 

We have three great QB prospects! It's a blessing! Stop feeling like you have to poop on others needlessly to support the one you like best! There are lots of right answers this year! Rejoice! (That's a PSA to the whole forum, not you specifically)

You’ll have to forgive me again but all you’ve posted about Darnold in here lately has been negative. ?

I don’t know why you’d stop posting about the qbs, this year has been the least hostile of the years I’ve been on here concerning qbs. I believe it has something to do with your last paragraph. It honestly looks like we can’t screw it up drafting any of these guys. I believe for the most part everybody feels likewise. Except of course for the Barkley at one cats. 

[Aztec Hammer]

22 minutes ago, kjmercer17 said:

We might want to look at a few of their WR'S, they can catch the ball! That would be different

Tyler Vaughns is decent. Still in college though. Deontay Burnett is in the draft this year but he is very limited athletically. I think he'll be a udfa.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said:

You’ll have to forgive me again but all you’ve posted about Darnold in here lately has been negative. ?

I don’t know why you’d stop posting about the qbs, this year has been the least hostile of the years I’ve been on here concerning qbs. I believe it has something to do with your last paragraph. It honestly looks like we can’t screw it up drafting any of these guys. I believe for the most part everybody feels likewise. Except of course for the Barkley at one cats. 

It's early. The Baker Mayfield fans have just taken it for the most part so far. There are a lot of posts about if we screw up and draft that bum... no one is saying that about Darnold as I recall. Some have mentioned concerns about his turnovers, hitch in his throw, his readiness to start day 1 etc... but it seems to always accompany the perceived weaknesses of the other top QBs too. Once someone gets fed up with the Baker hate they will return it and attack Darnold and then it will get ugly.

Just a matter of time. The unfortunate part is that some will start hating Darnold because of it which is unfortunate because he is a good QB prospect and they will be soured a little if we draft him, at least at first. If we draft Baker there are already a half dozen posters who will throw a tantrum and say they will stop following the Browns because they are already way too deep supporting one of three great QB prospects.  We all will have our favorites but I think some can learn from MBTL and realize there are multiple good p[prospects and even if the one you like best isn't chosen things are still probably gonna turn out pretty good.

[Aztec Hammer]

30 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Just a matter of time. The unfortunate part is that some will start hating Darnold because of it which is unfortunate because he is a good QB prospect and they will be soured a little if we draft him, at least at first. If we draft Baker there are already a half dozen posters who will throw a tantrum and say they will stop following the Browns because they are already way too deep supporting one of three great QB prospects.  We all will have our favorites but I think some can learn from MBTL and realize there are multiple good p[prospects and even if the one you like best isn't chosen things are still probably gonna turn out pretty good.

What if you don't think Mayfield is a good/great prospect? 

I don't dislike Baker because I like Darnold and Rosen. I dislike Baker because if I had to choose one way or the other, I think he will flame out.

It's not personal, though I feel Mayfield fans are taking it that way.

If we draft him of course I'd be devastated in the moment, because of what I wrote above, that I think he won't be good. But after 5 minutes I'll change my time and jump on the badnwagon, because he'll be a Brown and that won't be changing.

[Bonanza23]

33 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

It's early. The Baker Mayfield fans have just taken it for the most part so far. There are a lot of posts about if we screw up and draft that bum... no one is saying that about Darnold as I recall. Some have mentioned concerns about his turnovers, hitch in his throw, his readiness to start day 1 etc... but it seems to always accompany the perceived weaknesses of the other top QBs too. Once someone gets fed up with the Baker hate they will return it and attack Darnold and then it will get ugly.

Just a matter of time. The unfortunate part is that some will start hating Darnold because of it which is unfortunate because he is a good QB prospect and they will be soured a little if we draft him, at least at first. If we draft Baker there are already a half dozen posters who will throw a tantrum and say they will stop following the Browns because they are already way too deep supporting one of three great QB prospects.  We all will have our favorites but I think some can learn from MBTL and realize there are multiple good p[prospects and even if the one you like best isn't chosen things are still probably gonna turn out pretty good.

Yeah who am I kidding?  You’re probably right ?

Oh and I hear Mayfield’s father smells of elderberries... ??

[FGK]

2 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

You’ll have to forgive me again but all you’ve posted about Darnold in here lately has been negative. ?

True. It's probably my natural contrarian reaction with Darnold seemingly emerging as the forum consensus #1 preference while I personally think he's #3 (of 3 guys who are worthy of a #1 pick). Plus the fact that a handful of the pro-Darnold camp have settled on him as the ONLY option rather than just the best option, and that I don't know how somebody sees looking at this class. 

[FGK]

3 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Man I think we are all culpable of this a little bit in that case. You had Darnold's hand size being an issue in the other thread!

But I'll take it on board and will try to cut down on calling out the other QB prospects if it comes across like that. I don't intend it to: I do just genuinely think for example that Rosen gets locked onto his first read too much, or that Mayfield's second half vs Georgia really worried me etc. And also that Darnold gets overconfident and forces something that he shouldn't have that didn't align with seeing the coverage correctly!

It is! The man has tiny hands Aztec. Tiny. Hands.

And if the combine proves otherwise I take back this entire post. But legit, I've seen a handful of smaller media scouts whose opinion I value questioning if he'll break the 9' plateau and wondering if the main stream draft folks aren't talking about it yet because they want to whip it out late in the process to create drama. I hope he does because I don't care about hand size beyond that point, smaller does make me a bit nervous because of my boys, Brian Brohm and Tyler Wilson. RIP tiny hands crew.

[Aztec Hammer]

Just now, freakygeniuskid said:

It is! The man has tiny hands Aztec. Tiny. Hands.

And if the combine proves otherwise I take back this entire post. But legit, I've seen a handful of smaller media scouts whose opinion I value questioning if he'll break the 9' plateau. I hope he does because I don't care about hand size beyond that point, smaller does make me a bit nervous because of my boys, Brian Brohm and Tyler Wilson. RIP tiny hands crew.

As silly as it sounds, I'd be worrying too. It's hard to go against history, and isn't it something like Tony Romo is the only sub 9 guy to have a good career in recent memory?

Then again maybe that's just the case because most QBs that get the chance to play in the NFL are big mofos with giant hands usually. So there aren't enough sub 9 guys around to flop and prove it's true? Well except Brian Brohm and Tyler Wilson!

[Bonanza23]

I’m honestly not worried about his hands. He can sling it from all platforms. They’re above 9” even. I have pictures ????

[Thomas5737]

5 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

What if you don't think Mayfield is a good/great prospect? 

I don't dislike Baker because I like Darnold and Rosen. I dislike Baker because if I had to choose one way or the other, I think he will flame out.

So your opinion is Baker will likely not be good at all in the NFL. If I were to believe he is the best prospect in this class and you claim that he is possibly a mid or later round pick, where players who will likely not be any good at the NFL level go, then I am not going to value your opinion or I will think that you are knocking him down for some other reason.

If I were to say that Darnold has 16 career fumbles lost and 22 career total fumbles while having 36 career sacks against with the vast majority of his opponents having weak defenses (Pac12) on the college level can you imagine what is going to happen sat the NFL level? That makes him a a mid round pick as a project in my opinion as he will likely flame out at the NFL level. Would you care what I had to say if I said that? Or that he gave 14 points to the Buckeyes directly related to his turnovers in the 1st half of the bowl game that gave the Buckeyes a 24-7 halftime lead and another turnover in the red zone in the 2nd half and was the reason USC lost the game. I could say Mayfield wasn't able to win his game against a similar defense but at least he didn't lose it for his team. Because it's coming, from someone eventually. If you can judge Baker on a half of a bowl game where he didn't do enough to win it will be brought up that the USC defense held the Buckeyes to 277 total yards and only 3 points that weren't off turnovers while Darnold's turnovers alone cost his team well more than that point total. Or that his only scoring drive totaled 15 total yards in that game after a Buckeye turnover.  It's easy to find reasons for any player to be propped up or knocked down. If you take the whole body of work along with physical skills into consideration then you shouldn't expect any of the top 3 QBs to bust. It could happen to one or all three, it is an unknown, but if someone gives any of them a better than 50% chance to bust, flame out or just not be good enough at the NFL level I can't trust your opinion.

[Aztec Hammer]

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

 It could happen to one or all three, it is an unknown, but if someone gives any of them a better than 50% chance to bust, flame out or just not be good enough at the NFL level I can't trust your opinion.

I respect your opinion even if it's not in line with mine. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. I like reading the differing views on a player and going back and forth.

I'll be honest, my judgment of Mayfield is on his overall body of work and for whatever reason, ultimately my brain has decided that it sees a great college QB who has a good arm and nice accuracy, but has little experience of playing what resembles pro football. And when I put aside the plays that I don't think have relevance in projecting how he will translate, I'm left with questions and doubts.

I don't mind at all that you don't trust my opinion on him or by extension, the QBs in general. Hopefully you recognise that it's not me hating or whatever though.

For what it's worth, I'd love nothing more than for Mayfield to win for the Browns and for me to assume the role of the guy on the forum that doubted him and was the leader of the hot take brigade. Because it would mean the Browns win.

I hope Mayfield succeeds. I want most guys to do well. It's rare that I can't stand someone when casting football aside (Winston is the last instance I can think of). Mayfield's off the field stuff is a concern, the police thing especially, and the other stuff is immature but it doesn't make me dislike him.

I don't know about the word 'bust', but I think all three have a fair chance of not making it, or at least not living up to the hype/pick. I think that's the nature of the draft and it's almost impossible to be sure.

I just like Darnold the most, even in spite of the things you brought up above. Whereas you like Mayfield the most? In spite of the things I've brought up.

[Thomas5737]

6 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I just like Darnold the most, even in spite of the things you brought up above. Whereas you like Mayfield the most? In spite of the things I've brought up

I dunno, I've been lazy and really haven't reviewed them enough to have a favorite. If I had to pick one I'd say Rosen but I like all three.

[MWil23]

We should stick to hand size as our #1 evaluator of QBs. It's worked out really well. Weeden, JFF, Cody Kessler, and Kizer all have elite hand size. Kessler is also the most efficient QB in USC History. Coupled with his MASSIVE hands, which are bigger than Wentz's, he's our QBOTF. 

[Bonanza23]

31 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

We should stick to hand size as our #1 evaluator of QBs. It's worked out really well. Weeden, JFF, Cody Kessler, and Kizer all have elite hand size. Kessler is also the most efficient QB in USC History. Coupled with his MASSIVE hands, which are bigger than Wentz's, he's our QBOTF. 

You got pictorial proof of all this?

[Thomas5737]

50 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

We should stick to hand size as our #1 evaluator of QBs. It's worked out really well. Weeden, JFF, Cody Kessler, and Kizer all have elite hand size. Kessler is also the most efficient QB in USC History. Coupled with his MASSIVE hands, which are bigger than Wentz's, he's our QBOTF. 

Kessler did have a higher passer rating in their rookie years he just wasn't good enough to start ahead of Kizer. We should just trade Kizer for Wentz and have him back up Kessler.

Someone with small hands can overcome it and still be good. Same with a 5'8 QB, it can be overcome. It obviously puts those players at a disadvantage but is just one factor in being successful so you can sorta make up for it with strengths in other areas. Yeah Darnold may be a big time fumbler in the NFL but as long as he limits interceptions and has a lot of positive plays it doesn't have to be a real hindrance, if he does indeed have smaller than 9.25" hands which I don't think he will. Mayfield can make up for being just under 6'1 too. Whether these prospects can improve their flaws or even make up for them by being great in other areas is completely unknown and is why this is mostly a guessing game when you try to determine which good prospects will be better than the others.