Mr Anonymous Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Whatever the reason, Gute or Ball, I don't even have a problem with not signing big name free agents. Don't think that's how you win Super Bowls. I think you win Super Bowls through bargain free agents, post June first signings, value trades and in-season moves as well as having strong drafts. As long as we somehow, someway add corners, I'll see this as the best offseason we've had in a long time. That's not much of a departure from Ted Thompson. An despite how it may sound, I never had an issue with that approach either, nor do I now. The problem we face is - if things aren't going to be much different now than before, we need Gutekunst to be every bit as good of a talent evaluator as Thompson was if not better. And that's with a major recent talent drain in the scouting department added to the constraints of the 3-headed monster Mark Murphy created at the top. It's the type of situation that's practically built to fail. Lest we forget, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers were both adamantly against Russ Ball being hired as GM. They both wanted this team to be more aggressive in free agency. You have to supplement draft misses somehow. Casting aside personal thoughts on free agency, it does not bode well to have conflicting visions for how to build the team. And that's what we have with Russ Ball still sending out these joke offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 From Cliff Christl, Packers historian: Here’s something else Bob Harlan told me recently that I think fits into this storyline. During his nearly two decades as president, the two moves that drew the most criticism from fans was Wolf’s trade for Favre and Ted Thompson’s decision to draft Aaron Rodgers. Harlan said he was flooded with critical calls and letters after both announcements. Haha ! That's just awesome and a timely reminder of the inconvenient truth when it comes to the loudest- mouthed Packer fans: The masses are *****.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, Green19 said: And all of those teams have had a ton of cap space traditionally, so money still does the talking . Plus Florida taxes help... signing the same contract in Wisconsin and Florida, you see more of the money in Florida. I agree ultimately with you because just look at humans in general. Certain guys want small town, others don’t. A guy like Odell probably wouldn’t willing choose GB. But let’s also understand money talks. Green Bay hasn’t had the luxury of a ton of available cap space for the last 5-10 years. Kinda my point with no state income tax in Florida/Texas. It's why those two states sign the most free agents. And having Peyton Manning didn't stop players from signing with Denver. Denver is much more appealing to most NFL players than Green Bay. It also didn't stop New Orleans from chasing free agents for a bunch of years when Brees signed there or even after Brees signed there. It also has a SMALL impact on who we draft, too. Green Bay is not for a large percentage of NFL players. There were literally articles about a bunch of Packers having Settlers of Cataan parties. Anybody who thinks Odell Beckham or a similar big name, big personality player is about to play Settlers of Cataan on a Friday night during the season is out of their damn mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said: That's not much of a departure from Ted Thompson. An despite how it may sound, I never had an issue with that approach either, nor do I now. The problem we face is - if things aren't going to be much different now than before, we need Gutekunst to be every bit as good of a talent evaluator as Thompson was if not better. And that's with a major recent talent drain in the scouting department added to the constraints of the 3-headed monster Mark Murphy created at the top. It's the type of situation that's practically built to fail. Lest we forget, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers were both adamantly against Russ Ball being hired as GM. They both wanted this team to be more aggressive in free agency. You have to supplement draft misses somehow. Casting aside personal thoughts on free agency, it does not bode well to have conflicting visions for how to build the team. And that's what we have with Russ Ball still sending out these joke offers. Man was it reported they didn't want Ball? I never saw that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, Shanedorf said: The masses are *****... Who are you trying to make fun of here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Shanedorf said: From Cliff Christl, Packers historian: Here’s something else Bob Harlan told me recently that I think fits into this storyline. During his nearly two decades as president, the two moves that drew the most criticism from fans was Wolf’s trade for Favre and Ted Thompson’s decision to draft Aaron Rodgers. Harlan said he was flooded with critical calls and letters after both announcements. Haha ! That's just awesome and a timely reminder of the inconvenient truth when it comes to the loudest- mouthed Packer fans: The masses are *****.... I was young then but we had a sports cards shop and did shows most weekends then and I remember how hard everyone laughed we gave that up for Brett. I think at one time we had 500~ Favre rookies. Everyone knew we were the idiots that would trade for them every time. Suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, Mr Anonymous said: That's not much of a departure from Ted Thompson. I think activity in the season is a major departure from Thompson. Shields out week one, Randall with a groin injury, Rollins battling injuries, Hyde battling injuries. We had so many injuries at corner early in the season that we knew would hurt us late in the season and what does Thompson do? He activated Makinton Dorleant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: Who are you trying to make fun of here? Fans. We are dumb. It's the truth lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, NormSizedMidget said: Fans. We are dumb. It's the truth lol But I'm not dumb. 97% of the time I'm right, and the 3% of times I'm wrong, I was joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: And how do you know that Graham and Wilkerson were offered more by those other teams? Saints have 2 million dollars in cap space right now. How are you even trying to use Wilkerson's post-Green Bay visits as a point for YOUR argument? Wilkerson visited here and then visited other places. Don't you kinda maybe sorta possibly think that means he wasn't sold on Green Bay after his visit? Don't you think that kinda sorta maybe possibly means he was trying to get a better or equal deal from someone else? Quote Graham's old team and QB were courting him with 2 million dollars in cap space? Lol. A. Never said what they were offered or that I knew what he was offered, just that they chose GB. Obviously money is always a factor. B. Judging by Wilkerson's minuscule incentive laden contract, I doubt teams could be offering much less. Also, you just stated he may have been trying to get an equal deal from someone else... so in that case all things equal he chose GB? C. I kinda Sorta look at the factual evidence that Wilkerson chose GB over the other places. Not hypotheticals. Quote Patriots, etc. Got a link? Other than your alter ego? Here it is for the Cowboys. Patriots are from memory on twitter. Not going to look up links that are 5 years old. Point is he had other options and chose GB. Who cares if it was to chase w ring? Shouldn't you want players wanting to come to your team to win? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000334283/article/julius-peppers-signs-contract-with-green-bay-packers Quote Lol. What? How many GB free agents have chosen not to re-sign in GB? You want me to make a sortable list? Jennings, Hyde, Heyward, Burnett... The only one of those recorded to be offered a contract is Jennings and I believe MN was for more money. Hyde and Hayward ( with an A not an E) are on record saying they weren't offered from GB before leaving. I suspect the same occured with Burnett. So keep I'll wait on the sortable list of those offered by GB and chose to go somewhere else, guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: Man was it reported they didn't want Ball? I never saw that. McGinn reported that McCarthy threatened to resign if Ball was named GM. I linked that in the Fuller thread. And Jason Wilde reported on the radio on on Twitter that Aaron Rodgers was against Russ Ball being the next GM. McCarthy and Rodgers both blamed Russ Ball for the lack of free agents being signed by the team. Yesterday's MJS article confirms that the Packers expect free agents to come to Green Bay at a discount - citing history and the mere presence of Aaron Rodgers as reasons to do so. It was their practice in recent years and continues this offseason. Continues despite the presence of a new GM. Continues just as Russ Ball continues to negotiate contracts with an unusually high level of power over how they are structured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegybomb Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Jordy obviously didn't take our generous offer so that he could escape the midwest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: I think activity in the season is a major departure from Thompson. Shields out week one, Randall with a groin injury, Rollins battling injuries, Hyde battling injuries. We had so many injuries at corner early in the season that we knew would hurt us late in the season and what does Thompson do? He activated Makinton Dorleant. I think the volume of player trades will be the one way Gutekunst will be able to distinguish himself from Ted Thompson. Gutekunst has 2 clear avenues of full control. He makes the final call on who is selected in the draft and he is the one who can pull the trigger on trades. The fact that Russ Ball is around to hamstring him in free agency, means if he wants to be aggressive its going to have to be in the draft and via player trades. It's why I expect more player for player trades like Randall and why I expect Gutekunst will be much more aggressive trading up in the draft. I think they'll trade up in round 1 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jaegybomb said: Jordy obviously didn't take our generous offer so that he could escape the midwest. In the Godfather movies, you often hear them talk about "an offer you couldn't refuse" This is is the converse of that..."an offer you couldn't accept" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, ArthurPensky said: B. Judging by Wilkerson's minuscule incentive laden contract, I doubt teams could be offering much less. Also, you just stated he may have been trying to get an equal deal from someone else... so in that case all things equal he chose GB Key word trying. If he was sold on Green Bay, he wouldn't have visited three other teams. Period. Quote C. I kinda Sorta look at the factual evidence that Wilkerson chose GB over the other places. Not hypotheticals. I kinda sorta look at them, too. The important ones being 1 year deal, 8 million tops, quit on his most recent team, got released by his last team. Quote Here it is for the Cowboys. Patriots are from memory on twitter. Not going to look up links that are 5 years old. Point is he had other options and chose GB. You've got one 34-year-old player who chose Green Bay. 34. 34 years old. Quote The only one of those recorded to be offered a contract is Jennings and I believe MN was for more money. Jennings left Green Bay for Minnesota for two million more and he went from Rodgers to Ponder and you think that's not significant? Quote So keep I'll wait on the sortable list of those offered by GB and chose to go somewhere else, guy. Don't pull that "guy" crap. It's literally cringeworthy. Just gross. I'd much rather you call me an *** or something because adding "guy" or "pal" when you're trying to suggest you're being smart and clever just sounds so weird and creepy and I'd literally rather be called a ****ing *** or something. But this time I'll actually think... Walker literally asked for a trade. Wells. Spitz. Colledge. Jones. House. Tretter. Lacy. That's all I've got off the top of my head. Barnett didn't exactly love the nightlife in Green Bay. I just really don't understand why you refuse to believe that Green Bay as far as a geographical location isn't a factor in adding free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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