Free Agency Discussion

[BleedTheClock]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

For sure, but he played with a qb who got rid of the ball quickly and is elusive.  He also didn’t face NFL level pass rushers all that often.

There’s nothing about him a college condition program couldn’t fix either, but it didn’t.  14 reps?  That’s a warmup set.

Here's the way I look at it: Orlando Brown's tape never suggested that his strength or speed was an issue. The combine shouldn't alarm anyone if the strength and speed he went against each and every week was neutralized with ease.

I'm still on team Orlando Brown. I didn't even change his grade. He's my top rated OT.

note: I find this OT class to be underwhelming to be honest.

[AkronsWitness]

3 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

LetsGo loving life right now.

Penny, Guice, Michel etc... yes please

I dont know about those guys TBH. They are good backs, but their size to me screams complimentary RB. All of them are 5'11" 215lbs and if you look at the really good every down RBs in the NFL like Todd Gurley, Zeke Elliot, David Johnson, Derek Henry, Leveon Bell---they are all over 6'1" 225lbs+. 

Barkley is shorter but he is nearly 230lbs. IDK, unless a guy like Michel or Guice can add some weight to handle the beating between the tackles Im not really sold on them just from a physical standpoint. A guy like Kalen Ballage from Arizona state could probably be had after all of those guys mentioned and hes the size of Derek Henry at 6'3" 230lbs.

[MWil23]

We all knew that Zeus Jr. wouldn't test well, but there is a major indicator of his combine that's a huge Red Flag:

Look at how flabby he is. What's he been doing the last 3 months to prepare for the biggest interview of his life? That goes to either immaturity or lack of work ethic, if not both.

If he came in and underperformed while looking the part, I'd be more inclined to give him a pass.

14 Bench Reps is embarrassing. I'm 5'10 and a 1/2 and 170 and I can do 2-3 no problem.

I mean, I did 195 for 5 on my 5th freaking set the other day. COME ON DUDE.

[TheeRealDeal]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

For sure, but he played with a qb who got rid of the ball quickly and is elusive.  He also didn’t face NFL level pass rushers all that often.

There’s nothing about him a college condition program couldn’t fix either, but it didn’t.  14 reps?  That’s a warmup set.

The best pass rusher he ever faced the last two years abused him badly. I will have to go back and look to know the exact number but I know it was at least 2 sacks and 8 pressures I saw Dorance Armstrong abusing Orlando Brown. Also to the guy who is claiming he didn't give up a single sack is wrong. He was abused by Armstrong this year for a sack I saw. Apparently someone else was involved bc it was credited as half. Either way Armstrong has owned him the last several years and he's not exactly a world beater prospect.

[Aztec Hammer]

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I dont know about those guys TBH. They are good backs, but their size to me screams complimentary RB. All of them are 5'11" 215lbs and if you look at the really good every down RBs in the NFL like Todd Gurley, Zeke Elliot, David Johnson, Derek Henry, Leveon Bell---they are all over 6'1" 225lbs+. 

Barkley is shorter but he is nearly 230lbs. IDK, unless a guy like Michel or Guice can add some weight to handle the beating between the tackles Im not really sold on them just from a physical standpoint. A guy like Kalen Ballage from Arizona state could probably be had after all of those guys mentioned and hes the size of Derek Henry at 6'3" 230lbs.

Guice is 5’11, 224

Penny is 5’11 220

[AkronsWitness]

8 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Guice is 5’11, 224

Penny is 5’11 220

On NFL.com from the combine it says Guice is 5'10" 212lbs. That is literally the exact same size as Duke Johnson. Im just saying the trend that I see in really good 1st-2nd down RBs in the NFL is that they are ALL 6'1" 225+

The only exception is Kareem Hunt. Jordan Howard you could also add to the list because hes 6'1" 225 on the dot. Leonard Fournette is 6'1" 228 as well.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Here's the way I look at it: Orlando Brown's tape never suggested that his strength or speed was an issue. The combine shouldn't alarm anyone if the strength and speed he went against each and every week was neutralized with ease.

I'm still on team Orlando Brown. I didn't even change his grade. He's my top rated OT.

note: I find this OT class to be underwhelming to be honest.

If we’re ignoring him putting together the worst combine performance ever, literally, what good is the combine at all?

His fat arse is going to get abused when he starts playing grown men who won’t get knocked around so easily.

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

On NFL.com from the combine it says Guice is 5'10" 212lbs. That is literally the exact same size as Duke Johnson. Im just saying the trend that I see in really good 1st-2nd down RBs in the NFL is that they are ALL 6'1" 225+

The only exception is Kareem Hunt. Jordan Howard you could also add to the list because hes 6'1" 225 on the dot.

AD in his prime was 217 pounds the year he rushed for over 2,000 yards.

[Aztec Hammer]

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

On NFL.com from the combine it says Guice is 5'10" 212lbs. That is literally the exact same size as Duke Johnson. Im just saying the trend that I see in really good 1st-2nd down RBs in the NFL is that they are ALL 6'1" 225+

The only exception is Kareem Hunt. Jordan Howard you could also add to the list because hes 6'1" 225 on the dot. Leonard Fournette is 6'1" 228 as well.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-combine-what-we-learned-from-rb-and-ol-weigh-ins-and-measurements/amp/

Guice at 5’10 4/8, 224.

I agree with you the weight thing. I want the back to be pushing 220 at least. Height doesn’t really bother me, I don’t think there’s much of a correlation there. I think it just so happens some of the many guys right now are a bit taller.

[AkronsWitness]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

AD in his prime was 217 pounds the year he rushed for over 2,000 yards.

He is also a athletic freakshow who is built like a GI Joe solider. Im just saying when I think of the NFLs really good early down-between the tackles runners they are all (outside of Hunt) at  6'0"+ 225lbs+. Not saying its the end all be all but it sort of for me sets the threshold of early down RBs without having to find an anomaly like Hunt or Freeman.

Leonard Fournette- 6'1" 228lbs

Jordan Howard- 6'1" 225lbs

Todd Gurley- 6'1" 231lbs

David Johnson- 6"1" 225lbs

Leveon Bell- 6'1" 225lbs

Derek Henry- 6'3" 238lbs

Zeke Elliot- 6"0" 225lbs

 

 

[TheeRealDeal]

9 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

On NFL.com from the combine it says Guice is 5'10" 212lbs. That is literally the exact same size as Duke Johnson. Im just saying the trend that I see in really good 1st-2nd down RBs in the NFL is that they are ALL 6'1" 225+

The only exception is Kareem Hunt. Jordan Howard you could also add to the list because hes 6'1" 225 on the dot. Leonard Fournette is 6'1" 228 as well.

Duke Johnson's combine was 5/9 1/8 207. You do realize NFL teams always balloon actual measurements rights

You want big feature backs?

How about these guys...

LeSean McCory 5'10 3/8 197

Kareem Hunt 5'10 1/4 216

Alvin Kamara 5'9 3/4 214

Dalvin Cook 5'11 210

I could go back further as Brian Westbrook, Fast Willie Parker, Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk and many more great were sub 205 running backs.

[BleedTheClock]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If we’re ignoring him putting together the worst combine performance ever, literally, what good is the combine at all?

His fat arse is going to get abused when he starts playing grown men who won’t get knocked around so easily.

Don't see many people abusing a 6'8 345 lb. man child. I don't care how much he benches or how slow he is. At the place I'm coaching at right now (albeit this is HS), we have two overweight sloppy slow weak kids. Their punch power is far and away the strongest of anyone on the team and we have some absolute workout warriors on the roster. These kids struggle to rep 185 on the bench press for a single rep but haven't had any problems with power. I will sometimes for fun rush against them in practice (they're twins) and their punch power knocks me--and everyone else--off course with ease. Sometimes size and mass matter way more than actual strength. And bench press is a pretty useless marker for translatable strength. I'd like to see his power clean and dead lift numbers before I give a crap about his bench press.

 

Orlando Brown doesn't frighten me nearly as much as some of the other OT prospects.

 

Connor Williams lacks great length and tends to get grabby and lungey.

Brian O'Neill lunges on every single snap.

Mike McGlinchey can't mirror speed rushers to save his life despite being a pretty good athlete himself.

Kolton Miller has a major inconsistency problem and is weak in run blocking.

 

All of the top OT's have issues that manifest themselves over and over again on their game tapes. Orlando Brown has much better game tape than all four of the OT's that are generally being put ahead of him.

 

Oh, and check out Joe Noteboom from TCU if you're looking for a potential LT steal. He's got excellent athleticism and the cleanest kick step I've evaluated in a few years. He is postured up and ready to engage before the DE has a shot to engage. Plus he's built like a tank. Noteboom is going to start at LT for somebody methinks.

[AkronsWitness]

3 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Duke Johnson's combine was 5/9 1/8 207. You do realize NFL teams always balloon actual measurements rights

You want big feature backs?

How about these guys...

LeSean McCory 5'10 3/8 197

Kareem Hunt 5'10 1/4 216

Alvin Kamara 5'9 3/4 214

Dalvin Cook 5'11 210

I could go back further as Brian Westbrook, Fast Willie Parker, Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk and many more great were sub 205 running backs.

I already pointed out the anomaly of Kareem Hunt...twice. Im not saying it doesnt work and like Aztec said its more of a weight thing than a height thing.

Lesean McCoy has been injured his entire career from being a smaller shifty between the tackles runner. Im talking about between the tackles here. Kamara is not a 1st -2nd down RB and he does his damage from pass catching and on the edges while Ingram takes the role of between the tackles.

Im strictly speaking about the role on 1st and 2nd down and a guy who can be very very good at pounding between the tackles while Duke takes the edge/pass caching role.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

He is also a athletic freakshow who is built like a GI Joe solider.

So? I gave another example, probably the best example of a between the tackles runner in the NFL in the last 10-20 years.

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Im just saying when I think of the NFLs really good early down-between the tackles runners they are all (outside of Hunt) at  6'0"+ 225lbs+.

Apparently Beast Mode didn't get the memo at 5'11 and 215.

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Not saying its the end all be all but it sort of for me sets the threshold of early down RBs without having to find an anomaly like Hunt or Freeman.

It's DEFINITELY a plus, but some of the best between the tackles runners are 215. 

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Leonard Fournette- 6'1" 228lbs

Jordan Howard- 6'1" 225lbs

Todd Gurley- 6'1" 231lbs

David Johnson- 6"1" 225lbs

Leveon Bell- 6'1" 225lbs

Derek Henry- 6'3" 238lbs

Zeke Elliot- 6"0" 225lbs

Like I said, AD and Marshawn are definitely on the list. Throw in a 207 pound Shady McCoy and a 5'9 216 pound Frank Gore and you're starting to look a little foolish.

[StewieRules]

32 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

We all knew that Zeus Jr. wouldn't test well, but there is a major indicator of his combine that's a huge Red Flag:

Look at how flabby he is. What's he been doing the last 3 months to prepare for the biggest interview of his life? That goes to either immaturity or lack of work ethic, if not both.

If he came in and underperformed while looking the part, I'd be more inclined to give him a pass.

14 Bench Reps is embarrassing. I'm 5'10 and a 1/2 and 170 and I can do 2-3 no problem.

I mean, I did 195 for 5 on my 5th freaking set the other day. COME ON DUDE.

And how long are your arms compared to his?  Look I'm not saying he isn't in need of some quality NFL conditioning/strength training - but the combine doesn't begin to tell the whole story on him.  Thats why I don't put much into the combine ... it identifies athletes, misses out on football players (too lazy to find the stills/vids of Tom Bradys combine, but you get the idea)