Calvert28 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 1 minute ago, EaglesPeteC said: So a guy has to have an awful coach to be not be overrated? Dougy P is a really good coach and found a way to work with Foles to win the Super Bowl. But if you watch Wentz, the guy makes plays few human beings are capable of making. Will he do that consistently over his career? Who knows? But even in his so called "bad season" he made those plays too Did I ever say that? You cannot deny that there is a bit of a hiccup in the statement that Wentz does it on his own merit. When a QB who yall previously cut for being horrible and not starter quality is able to come in to a pass first league with a pass first offense and put up a record performance against the most dominant dynasty of all time with the most accomplished coach and QB in NFL history who put up over 500 yards and 3 TD's. Then pass all of this off like it was a stroke of luck by a clever guy to find the right recipe but Wentz is 100% legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 8 hours ago, BAConrad said: Even though I hate hate hate using this argument because its so lame sometimes but..I feel this applies.....which is that with Wentz, you have to 100% WATCH all or most all of his snaps from this past season and the one before. You cant look at things in a vacuum and talk about how Foles looked in 2 games etc. Its such a stupid argument. Anyone who actually watched our offense knew that Carson was absolutely NOT a product of any genius offense, nor was he some great benefactor of an elite supporting cast (a la Dak in 2016). But I also still believe that Pederson is one of the best offensive coaches in the game and that our offense had a lot of talent. But all I say to you is go watch 2017 Eagles games. Bc this guy obvi hasn't. Wentz literally was constantly making just insane plays on his own every single game. It’s not a lame argument when you use it the way you did. Telling someone “you need to watch the games” in order to determine the intricacies of the offense, isn’t lame. It’s smart. I don’t think Wentz is a product of Pederson or the offensive talent, and yes, watching the games last year showed how much he was able to create on his own. Foles is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: It’s not a lame argument when you use it the way you did. Telling someone “you need to watch the games” in order to determine the intricacies of the offense, isn’t lame. It’s smart. I don’t think Wentz is a product of Pederson or the offensive talent, and yes, watching the games last year showed how much he was able to create on his own. Foles is another story. Well please do tell. Im guessing he's not a product of Pederson either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Well please do tell. Im guessing he's not a product of Pederson either? ...my post was boosting Wentz saying he wasn’t a product of Pederson. The following statement was “Foles is another story”. Based off that, you’re guessing I believe Foles isn’t a product of Pederson? Did you read the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Did I ever say that? You cannot deny that there is a bit of a hiccup in the statement that Wentz does it on his own merit. When a QB who yall previously cut for being horrible and not starter quality is able to come in to a pass first league with a pass first offense and put up a record performance against the most dominant dynasty of all time with the most accomplished coach and QB in NFL history who put up over 500 yards and 3 TD's. Then pass all of this off like it was a stroke of luck by a clever guy to find the right recipe but Wentz is 100% legit. But that is the basis of your whole argument. Pederson is good therefore Wentz isn't that good. I know this might be mind blowing to you but sometimes the coach AND the QB can be pretty good..... What I am saying is, yes Pederson scheme maximizes Wentz's talent but you can see by the way Wentz plays when a play breaks down that the scheme isnt the entire reason for his success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Well please do tell. Im guessing he's not a product of Pederson either? Did you not read his post or? @Yin-Yang youre right. I just think it can be often used as a lame crutch by know nothings but in this case it is valid. Im curious @Calvert28......you clearly watched many Eagles games last season based off your posts and confidence in your own knowledge of the Eagles offense, staff, players, etc. But then again, I also think WHAT you said indicates that you barely know much at all about the 2017 Eagles season, Wentz, Foles, Pederson, our offense, etc..... Im curious to hear you in your own words describe Doug Pedersons offensive scheme, so to speak. I mean, it must be some incredible offense that Doug runs if you can literally just put any street level QB in the game and have him looking like a top 5 QB right? *Spoilers* Doug isnt married to any one offensive scheme. Surprise! For instance... He literally will change his runblocking scheme in one game FIVE different times, when according to Geoff Schwartz, most teams stick to the same one every game for most if not all of their season. Doug literally doesnt have any specific offense that he runs. On any given week, he will listen to his coaches (and players') ideas on offense and simply just run his offense differently from play to play. Literally! PLAY BY PLAY SOMETIMES! So my point is, Doug is a genius and this is proof of why. He is able to change his offense around to fit his players' skills/weaknesses at the drop of a hat. But heres the caveat: The QB thats playing needs to play to those strengths consistently and at a high level in order to see the kind of things we saw from Foles in those 2 games or Wentz for the reg season. If that makes any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: ...my post was boosting Wentz saying he wasn’t a product of Pederson. The following statement was “Foles is another story”. Based off that, you’re guessing I believe Foles isn’t a product of Pederson? Did you read the post? Yes I read the ridiculous post. Im guessing you didn't catch my sarcasm. You think Pederson (a offensive minded coach) would be completely hands off with Wentz but exert complete control over everything Foles does is asinine logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 7 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said: But that is the basis of your whole argument. Pederson is good therefore Wentz isn't that good. I know this might be mind blowing to you but sometimes the coach AND the QB can be pretty good..... What I am saying is, yes Pederson scheme maximizes Wentz's talent but you can see by the way Wentz plays when a play breaks down that the scheme isnt the entire reason for his success. I've already admitted Wentz is good. And I am fairly certain I have brought up Brady and Billicheck numerous times as a way that a coach and player can both be great. But when you have a offensive minded coach, coaching an offensive player. Something has to give, you can't claim that both Wentz and Pederson both called the same play and give them both the credit for it. The credit has to be one or the other in many situations. For example, like you said when a play breaks down and Wentz has to buy second chances with his feet. That is on Wentz, but when you want to say both are great there has to be reasoning behind it that can't contradict the statements. Such as the Eagles success is the result of Wentz being a great QB. Perfectly debatable at 13 games into the season. Except after their successes continued to rise, not fall when Wentz was out. <-----that contradicts the previous statement. QB's like coaches, like anyone really need examples of greatness. Brady led multiple come from behind wins to win multiple SB's under a defensive minded coach. You can list numerous examples of this, and the examples are far more credible then buying some extra chances in the regular season on some broken plays. Anyone can make broken plays work, even Cam Newton has bought second chances with his feet and he has actually been to a SB. Wentz has not had the opportunity to show he's great yet. See what I'm saying now? Had the Eagles faultered, you could have made it debatable Wentz was the lynch pin for their success. Therefore making it debatable that he is in fact great. Except now there is the draw back that his own coach (a offensive minded coach) was able to achieve Super Bowl success with a team and a QB that was not Wentz that put up comparable gaudy numbers in the playoffs that Wentz did in the regular season and still find similar success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 7 hours ago, BAConrad said: offensive scheme, so to speak. I mean, it must be some incredible offense that Doug runs if you can literally just put any street level QB in the game and have him looking like a top 5 QB right? LMFAO Ok sorry I had to respond to this one thing. You mean any QB like say a one year wonder that had burnouts with 3 different teams and then was brought back on basically a 2 year (until we find something better) temp deal. Then to lead that same team with the "MVP" canidate out over the most dominant offense of the 2017 season, then was able to throw over 350 yards and 3 TD's against the best defense of the year in the NFC championship, and then topple one of the greatest dynasties the sports world has seen with it's greatest coach and and QB and still for over 370 yards and 3 TD's while only ever losing the lead in the game one time if I recall correctly. You mean like that kind of guy who looks like a top 5 QB right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Calvert28 said: Yes I read the ridiculous post. Im guessing you didn't catch my sarcasm. You think Pederson (a offensive minded coach) would be completely hands off with Wentz but exert complete control over everything Foles does is asinine logic. Cool, so we’ve clarified that you can’t read or at least read what you want to. I said that I don’t believe Wentz is a product of Doug Pederson. I implied that I believe Foles is. You don’t even know what kind of logic I used to come to that belief, because I didn’t explain - so you can use your ESPN lingo “asinine logic” as much as you’d like. You made a misinformed comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: I don’t think Wentz is a product of Pederson or the offensive talent, and yes, watching the games last year showed how much he was able to create on his own. Foles is another story. 1 hour ago, Calvert28 said: You think Pederson (a offensive minded coach) would be completely hands off with Wentz but exert complete control over everything Foles does is asinine logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Ok, the Eagles are only good because of Carson Wentz. None of Wentz success has anything to do with a coach who can win a SB with a QB that was half a pedestrian before last season started. A coach who not only designed the system and called the plays to specifically suit Wentz's play style but also overhauled it to suit the pedestrian QB. Yea nothing to do with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Ok, the Eagles are only good because of Carson Wentz. None of Wentz success has anything to do with a coach who can win a SB with a QB that was half a pedestrian before last season started. A coach who not only designed the system and called the plays to specifically suit Wentz's play style but also overhauled it to suit the pedestrian QB. Yea nothing to do with him. Ok so now we know where you are with your argument: that point where you're just so obviously wrong/not making sense that you have to start just making things up just to do it. I believe theres a term for that. But i no very smart doe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Also breaking news: there can never be, nor has there ever been, a great offensive coach AND a great quarterback on one team. IT IS ONE OR THE OTHER, PEOPLE. GET IT IN YOUR HEADS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAConrad Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I mean, Wentz BARELY has any more of a sample size than Jimmy G, people. @Calvert28 even said so. And this guy. He knows what hes talkin bout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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