2017 College Football / Scouting

[doumeyer]

17 hours ago, jetskid007 said:

Darnold is going to be that sure-fire #1 guy IMO, but I'm legitimately concerned that he won't declare. 

In the last 10 years, I'd say there have been 3 QB prospects who were redshirts, but we knew would be top 1-2 QB prospects by their RS-Soph year: Bradford, Luck, Winston. Obviously a small sample, but history tells us he's more likely to return to school than not. He's the type of player that will go #1 barring something catastrophic (remember, Bradford still went first despite playing 3 games in his final year). As fans, we should assume the unfortunate likelihood that Darnold stays in school. 

 

The question becomes who will establish himself as worthy of a top 3 pick? We all know about Rosen, but keep an eye out for the "off the field" stuff... forget pictures with girls and his outspokeness, scouts believe he has a misguided sense of entitlement and is borderline uncoachable. That will be something to watch. 

I'm personally a fan of Mason Rudolph, but I have no idea how that system impacts his draft stock or standing in NFL circles. Is he Goff or Petty? 

Josh Allen scares me. I think there's another guy that NFL scouts wanted him to be in Nick Fitzgerald, and it wouldn't surprise me if he rises to the top of the list if Darnold were to return to school.

 

I like Jackson as a college player, but not a huge fan of him in the pro-game. Falk, Mayfield look like 2nd rounders to me. A lot to watch going forward...

All this off the field stuff & sense of entitlement and being borderline uncoachable, and outspokeness was the exact thing they said about Joe Namath. And these things were all true,  But I would draft a Josh Rosen & a Joe Namath in a heart beat.  And another thing Rosen is playing with half the talent at UCLA than Darnold has at USC and that is a fact.

[rickyt31]

Rosen is still my #1 QB, but it's not by far. He just does so much more with less. He comes from a pro style offense. He's just in shotgun a lot because that's the only this team can win. Ground game didn't show up until the end of the last game. Rosen made a few bad throws vs Memphis, but the L wasn't on him. He scored 5 TD's. That's the defense again. Rosen led the offense to 45, 56, and 45 point games so far. In those games, he has had one 4 TD game, and two 5TD games so far. As of right now, I don't have a reason why he shouldn't be number one.

[jetskid007]

Everyone makes valid points about Rosen, and I don't disagree with any of you, but it seems to run deeper than that. He does have an entitlement issue. He comes from an extremely successful background and has grown up being able to get away with whatever (similar to Manziel) and has that "I know more than you do" attitude, but the primary difference being that Rosen does not have any drug issues. I think that the NFL can humble him, but it'll certainly cause teams to hesitate. Winston had the crab legs and scandals, Cam had the stolen lap top, but the difference between them and Rosen is they were 150% dedicated to football, whereas people question whether Rosen is or will continue to be. 

Another thing worth pondering: will NFL teams- most notably Woody Johnson's  Jets- that try to avoid distractions draft a guy like Rosen very high? Right or wrong, not entirely sure. 

[rickyt31]

At first, I was worried about Rosen's actions until I looked into them. Teammates love him. The players post about him every time they win. He owns up to his mistakes on the field and doesn't lose his cool when players drop his passes. I think a lot of his character concerns is overblown and feels like the type of thing that would make us pass up on him and regret it.

 

Not sure if I said this, but if Rosen is the best QB available and woody use his political mess to skip him, I'm done as a Jets fan unless the QB we pick light it up early, Darnold, or we hire Jim Harbaugh . Not sure if I would have a team at all. But that would be the final straw for me. 

[GreenShore]

Not sold on Rosen.

 

Makes too many mistakes and does not love the game the way I'd want my 1st round QB to.

[jetskid007]

19 hours ago, GreenShore said:

Not sold on Rosen.

 

Makes too many mistakes and does not love the game the way I'd want my 1st round QB to.

I think part of that comes with the level of talent on the team. I think Darnold is way ahead of him as a prospect, but Rosen is still a top tier talent. 

 

The guy that intrigues me the most outside of Darnold is Rudolph. I really don't care what "anonymous" sources say at this point - he has the type of qualities that will have owners/GMs/coaches intrigued. I've been following enough drafts over the past 10 years to know that what they're saying about a QB in Sept usually doesn't apply in February. My expectation is that he'll be the 3rd ranked QB heading into January, and possibly #1 if Darnold/Rosen stay in school. 

[GreenShore]

46 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

I think part of that comes with the level of talent on the team. I think Darnold is way ahead of him as a prospect, but Rosen is still a top tier talent. 

 

The guy that intrigues me the most outside of Darnold is Rudolph. I really don't care what "anonymous" sources say at this point - he has the type of qualities that will have owners/GMs/coaches intrigued. I've been following enough drafts over the past 10 years to know that what they're saying about a QB in Sept usually doesn't apply in February. My expectation is that he'll be the 3rd ranked QB heading into January, and possibly #1 if Darnold/Rosen stay in school. 

Rosen has a talented team. Don't kid yourself.

 

Sure Rosen may have more talent, but he has yet to show that he is committed to being great.

 

Darnold has more than enough talent and has shown he's committed up to this point.

 

We'll discuss this after the season when we really know.

[rdelaney89]

2 hours ago, GreenShore said:

Rosen has a talented team. Don't kid yourself.

 

Sure Rosen may have more talent, but he has yet to show that he is committed to being great.

 

Darnold has more than enough talent and has shown he's committed up to this point.

 

We'll discuss this after the season when we really know.

I think he was comparing USC to UCLA which isn't really that close. USC's team is loaded all the way around, Rosen is definitely doing a lot with less than Darnold is. I really hope that both declare, this is going to be a fun college/offseason to watch.

[ekill08x]

2 hours ago, GreenShore said:

Rosen has a talented team. Don't kid yourself.

 

Sure Rosen may have more talent, but he has yet to show that he is committed to being great.

 

Darnold has more than enough talent and has shown he's committed up to this point.

 

We'll discuss this after the season when we really know.

Im just going to assume you dont watch college football if you actually think UCLA is good, and what makes you say Rosen is committed to being great? Not sure where any of this is coming from. 

[GreenShore]

I know what he was doing.

 

I'm saying you're lying to yourself if you don't think UCLA's team has talent. They're loaded with 5 and 4 star players across their entire roster. They have athletes all over the field on offense with plenty of talented players. 

 

My point is, sure UCLA has a boneheaded coaching staff, but there is not a big drop in talent from USC to UCLA. Stop making excuses for Rosen. He's shown that he hasn't been able to eliminate the boneheaded play and until he can stop that I'll be weary of him.

[rdelaney89]

Starting to dive a little further into the QBs in my free time. My takeaways so far:

Darnold - If we land the #1 pick we better be on the phone with whoever can get in his ear. After watching interviews with him I think he has the level head to handle any NY media. Anything we can do to convince this kid to come out is a must.

Rosen - His team around him hurts his stats but I think he is a clear 1st round pick. Some reports about his teammates not liking him or him speaking openly on non football topics gives me concern with how much the NY media analyzes small details. 

Jackson - He is the most electric prospect since Mike Vick, his arm strengh is just unreal. I think he'll be able to cut through wind and cold weather with ease. I don't think I would take him #1 though, he is going to take far too many shots and I'm not sure if his body will hold up. The offense he runs has me concerned as well, does that transfer to an NFL level. That said I really hope he doesn't land in Buffalo because he is going to be a nightmare to guard against.

Mayfield - His body language lights a fire around the team. I think he plays with so much passion his teammates feed off of it. I almost get a  Johnny Football vibe from him but in not sure if I want that in NYC. I think you'd have to determine if he is mature enough and accurate enough to make it in the NFL. The arm strength and speed are both there for sure. He has a lot of wide open receivers that he won't have come the next level.

Allen - Kid can throw the ball on a rope. I feel like he is the most humble of the QBs coming out this year. He didn't have any scholarship offers, played for a community college, and then realized he needed to see more defenses before he made the jump to the NFL. He got some wheels to go with that big arm so mobility is not an issue here. 

Rudolph - I need to watch more tape on him but it feels like his receivers are running wide open a lot. He's mobile like the rest of the QBs in this class but always keeps his eyes down field. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers a little. Not a statue, strong armed, mobile enough to avoid pressure.

 

Haven't had too much time to break every play down but just my takeaways so far. Once the season is over and we know who is declaring, I'll go through every snap. If I had to make a snap judgement I'd probably say:

1) Darnold

2) Rosen 

3a) Mayfield

3b) Allen (concerned about level of competition)

5) Rudolph (Need to watch more tape)

6) Jackson (play style scares me)

[rickyt31]

lol As a fan, UCLA don't have great players around Rosen. last year, we ranked 127th in rushing out of 128 teams. we couldn't stop Hawaii from running the ball this season. Look at how talented the team looked around him when he got hurt last season and went 1-6 afterward. It's one of the reasons why no one is considering anyone draft wise on the team but him.

Rosen faces more pressure and dropped passes than Darnold and I have no idea why people are questioning his love for the game. I don't blame those who like Darnold more, but I see a lot in Rosen. The same mistakes he has made has been made by top QBs in the NFL. Rosen took some shots during Texas A&M game and started limping at on point, stayed in a fought. Last season, played with injuries until his shoulder got hurt and never made an excuse. Dude is probably the toughest QB in this draft.

 

 

[Malik]

Man maybe I need to watch the games but all I see is Darnold putting up pedestrian numbers against unranked teams

[footlunder]

On 9/20/2017 at 10:16 AM, jetskid007 said:

Everyone makes valid points about Rosen, and I don't disagree with any of you, but it seems to run deeper than that. He does have an entitlement issue. He comes from an extremely successful background and has grown up being able to get away with whatever (similar to Manziel) and has that "I know more than you do" attitude, but the primary difference being that Rosen does not have any drug issues. I think that the NFL can humble him, but it'll certainly cause teams to hesitate. Winston had the crab legs and scandals, Cam had the stolen lap top, but the difference between them and Rosen is they were 150% dedicated to football, whereas people question whether Rosen is or will continue to be. 

Another thing worth pondering: will NFL teams- most notably Woody Johnson's  Jets- that try to avoid distractions draft a guy like Rosen very high? Right or wrong, not entirely sure. 

That's a reach.  Give me an example of his entitlement issue.  The kid is aware of his privilege and has always spoken out on social issues.  Doubting his commitment to football is unfounded.

Darnold is probably going #1.  Will be completely idiotic if the jets have the #2 pick and don't pick Rosen.  

[KingOfNewYork]

5 hours ago, Malik said:

Man maybe I need to watch the games but all I see is Darnold putting up pedestrian numbers against unranked teams

Watch the games.