redsoxsuck05 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Also the Reds are reallllyyyyyy far from competing. We just haven't really noticed bc Votto has been propping them up from Marlins territory. Farm system isnt all that great aside from Senzel and 19 year old Greene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 45 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said: Wait who's the fatty? It's him trying to get under my skin, which is what he's been trying to do for years to no avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said: Also the Reds are reallllyyyyyy far from competing. We just haven't really noticed bc Votto has been propping them up from Marlins territory. Farm system isnt all that great aside from Senzel and 19 year old Greene Taylor Trammell is a stud too. Jeter Downs, Tyler Stephenson and Shed Long have some potential too. Outside of those guys, I'm not a fan though so I see your point. Very little depth in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrubes20 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 18 hours ago, mission27 said: Lets see... He's the biggest, hits the ball the hardest and furthest, and has the best arm this generation. But sure, he's not a generational talent. And a .300 hitter who walks, hits for absurd power, plays good defense, can steal bases, and has the best arm in baseball is clearly not a five tool player. 1. He hit the ball the hardest and furthest in 2017. Absolutely. He has done neither so far in 2018, and Stanton has a long history of hitting it just as hard and just as far on average. It's elite power, but it's not so otherworldly that we've never seen anything like it in baseball history. Or most aptly, even recent history. 2. He doesn't even have the best arm on his own team. Aaron Hicks has the fastest recorded throw in statcast history and the fastest average speed on "competitive" throws. Yet you felt the need to erroneously slap a "best arm in the generation" label on him. This is why I posted that gif. Quit watering everything down. 3. He's not a plus runner. Statcast has him as somewhere between average and above average. And "can steal bases"? He has 11 in 202 career games. I mean, I guess? 4. He's literally never hit for .300 in a season. He hit for .284 last year. He made contact 67.6% of the time in 2017 and is making contact 68% of the time so far in 2018. There is simply no case to be made that he has a plus hit tool. Know who else has had a season with a .286 average, while hitting for prodigious power (53 bombs) and made contact 69.1% of the time? Chris Davis. Nobody would ever slap a plus hit tool, or even above average hit tool on Davis. So to recap: No plus speed tool and no plus hit tool, means no 5 tool player. You can't average his 80 power with the others. 18 hours ago, mission27 said: Either way he's good, very good, but its a question that interests me, because people seem to have taken a very strong position on this despite the evidence pointing in the other direction, mostly (I would guess) because of very strong priors linked to his prospect ranking and how unusual he is. I don't care one iota about his prospect ranking. I care about the fact that nobody has been able to sustain the profile he had in 2017 for a number of seasons. As I mentioned above with Davis, there have been guys that have done it for 1 year, and maybe part of another. Maybe he truly is the unicorn that can pull it off for multiple complete seasons. If so, great! But if nobody has ever done something, the idea that another player can do it should absolutely be met with skepticism. 18 hours ago, mission27 said: What gets me with Judge is, he does amazing **** on a pretty regular basis that if, say, Shohei Ohtani did, you would all collectively lose your ****. But because its Judge the reaction is basically 'this is unsustainable, he can't repeat last season.' Or you just keep quiet until he strikes out and say how horrible he looked at the plate and that he can't repeat last season. I literally said "Judge looked lost" in his first AB of the year because he flailed at 3 straight breaking pitches and struck out. He DID look lost. Bk and I then discussed how we didn't think he would repeat his 2017 numbers. I don't believe I've posted one time about an individual AB or game of Judge's since that time. I didn't say one thing 2 games ago when he went 1 for 5 with a measly single and 3 Ks. You're the only one providing game by game running updates on Judge (and only when he does well). 16 hours ago, mission27 said: Btw I’m not alleging anti yankee bias here i think it has a lot more to do with group think and blind faith in these prospects lists we do remember, Albert Pujols wasn’t a huge prospect either Again, nobody gives 2 craps about Judge's prospect profile. I've been very vocal about my belief that Joey Gallo is not a star in the major leagues, despite multiple top 10 prospect rankings through the years that said he would be with his game-changing power. Honestly, your reaction to this Judge thing is almost identical to DCR regarding Gallo. You post EVERY game he does well and are quiet when he has a bad night. It's tiresome. 2 hours ago, Thelonebillsfan said: This doesn't excuse going off on an entirely pointless rant directed at people making aside comments that maybe there should be some tentative approach taken still since, it's April. You're being a jackass, it's cute when it's a persona you play it's not when it dominates the thread and is all about your ego in a counterbalance to what you perceive to be group think. Ease back. Chill out. This. Just let the season play out. You're not going to change anyone's mind at this stage in the game and you are just coming off as petty and defensive. It's a really bad look for as quality of a poster as yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, bkobow05 said: Taylor Trammell is a stud too. Jeter Downs, Tyler Stephenson and Shed Long have some potential too. Outside of those guys, I'm not a fan though so I see your point. Very little depth in the system. Yea it was actually a little unfair to leave out those guys. Still need way more talent in their organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, hrubes20 said: 1. He hit the ball the hardest and furthest in 2017. Absolutely. He has done neither so far in 2018, and Stanton has a long history of hitting it just as hard and just as far on average. It's elite power, but it's not so otherworldly that we've never seen anything like it in baseball history. Or most aptly, even recent history. 2. He doesn't even have the best arm on his own team. Aaron Hicks has the fastest recorded throw in statcast history and the fastest average speed on "competitive" throws. Yet you felt the need to erroneously slap a "best arm in the generation" label on him. This is why I posted that gif. Quit watering everything down. 3. He's not a plus runner. Statcast has him as somewhere between average and above average. And "can steal bases"? He has 11 in 202 career games. I mean, I guess? 4. He's literally never hit for .300 in a season. He hit for .284 last year. He made contact 67.6% of the time in 2017 and is making contact 68% of the time so far in 2018. There is simply no case to be made that he has a plus hit tool. Know who else has had a season with a .286 average, while hitting for prodigious power (53 bombs) and made contact 69.1% of the time? Chris Davis. Nobody would ever slap a plus hit tool, or even above average hit tool on Davis. So to recap: No plus speed tool and no plus hit tool, means no 5 tool player. You can't average his 80 power with the others. I don't care one iota about his prospect ranking. I care about the fact that nobody has been able to sustain the profile he had in 2017 for a number of seasons. As I mentioned above with Davis, there have been guys that have done it for 1 year, and maybe part of another. Maybe he truly is the unicorn that can pull it off for multiple complete seasons. If so, great! But if nobody has ever done something, the idea that another player can do it should absolutely be met with skepticism. I literally said "Judge looked lost" in his first AB of the year because he flailed at 3 straight breaking pitches and struck out. He DID look lost. Bk and I then discussed how we didn't think he would repeat his 2017 numbers. I don't believe I've posted one time about an individual AB or game of Judge's since that time. I didn't say one thing 2 games ago when he went 1 for 5 with a measly single and 3 Ks. You're the only one providing game by game running updates on Judge (and only when he does well). Again, nobody gives 2 craps about Judge's prospect profile. I've been very vocal about my belief that Joey Gallo is not a star in the major leagues, despite multiple top 10 prospect rankings through the years that said he would be with his game-changing power. Honestly, your reaction to this Judge thing is almost identical to DCR regarding Gallo. You post EVERY game he does well and are quiet when he has a bad night. It's tiresome. This. Just let the season play out. You're not going to change anyone's mind at this stage in the game and you are just coming off as petty and defensive. It's a really bad look for as quality of a poster as yourself. If you think mission is concerned about looking bad, check out any post he makes about football lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Re: The Reds. Wonder how long time goes before they trade Votto to a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, tom cody said: Re: The Reds. Wonder how long time goes before they trade Votto to a contender. Honestly with his contract they're better off making a him a lifetime Red. Not even saying that because of his start, I just think he'll be more valuable as a lifer/mentor on the next good Reds team than as a depressed-value trade chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, redsoxsuck05 said: Honestly with his contract they're better off making a him a lifetime Red. Not even saying that because of his start, I just think he'll be more valuable as a lifer/mentor on the next good Reds team than as a depressed-value trade chip. Yep and there's certain reasons that I won't get into on here why they won't trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, bkobow05 said: Yep and there's certain reasons that I won't get into on here why they won't trade him. Ugh I hate it when you and greenie tease us like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 hours ago, redsoxsuck05 said: Yea it was actually a little unfair to leave out those guys. Still need way more talent in their organization. There are a couple guys worth noting. Tony Santillan might be breaking out. Has always thrown 95-98 with plus stuff, and his walk rate to start the year is down to 2 per 9 after going steadily down every year since starting. 0.40 ERA through his first 22.1 IP. Stuart Fairchild (2017 2nd rd pick) has gotten off to a nice start too, but he's a college guy in Low A. They need to hit on their pick at 5 this year though, I agree they need more impact talent. Suarez breaking his thumb, and Votto starting out ice cold have completely tanked the offense. Billy Hamilton is a role player on a good team, not an every day starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Thelonebillsfan said: This doesn't excuse going off on an entirely pointless rant directed at people making aside comments that maybe there should be some tentative approach taken still since, it's April. You're being a jackass, it's cute when it's a persona you play it's not when it dominates the thread and is all about your ego in a counterbalance to what you perceive to be group think. Ease back. Chill out. Not my fault that I’m the only interesting thing left in this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 hours ago, redsoxsuck05 said: If you think mission is concerned about looking bad, check out any post he makes about football lol Yes. I am a Belichickian thinker. But keep on going with your group think everyone, I’m sure it serves you well in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 4 hours ago, hrubes20 said: 1. He hit the ball the hardest and furthest in 2017. Absolutely. He has done neither so far in 2018, and Stanton has a long history of hitting it just as hard and just as far on average. It's elite power, but it's not so otherworldly that we've never seen anything like it in baseball history. Or most aptly, even recent history. 2. He doesn't even have the best arm on his own team. Aaron Hicks has the fastest recorded throw in statcast history and the fastest average speed on "competitive" throws. Yet you felt the need to erroneously slap a "best arm in the generation" label on him. This is why I posted that gif. Quit watering everything down. 3. He's not a plus runner. Statcast has him as somewhere between average and above average. And "can steal bases"? He has 11 in 202 career games. I mean, I guess? 4. He's literally never hit for .300 in a season. He hit for .284 last year. He made contact 67.6% of the time in 2017 and is making contact 68% of the time so far in 2018. There is simply no case to be made that he has a plus hit tool. Know who else has had a season with a .286 average, while hitting for prodigious power (53 bombs) and made contact 69.1% of the time? Chris Davis. Nobody would ever slap a plus hit tool, or even above average hit tool on Davis. So to recap: No plus speed tool and no plus hit tool, means no 5 tool player. You can't average his 80 power with the others. I don't care one iota about his prospect ranking. I care about the fact that nobody has been able to sustain the profile he had in 2017 for a number of seasons. As I mentioned above with Davis, there have been guys that have done it for 1 year, and maybe part of another. Maybe he truly is the unicorn that can pull it off for multiple complete seasons. If so, great! But if nobody has ever done something, the idea that another player can do it should absolutely be met with skepticism. I literally said "Judge looked lost" in his first AB of the year because he flailed at 3 straight breaking pitches and struck out. He DID look lost. Bk and I then discussed how we didn't think he would repeat his 2017 numbers. I don't believe I've posted one time about an individual AB or game of Judge's since that time. I didn't say one thing 2 games ago when he went 1 for 5 with a measly single and 3 Ks. You're the only one providing game by game running updates on Judge (and only when he does well). Again, nobody gives 2 craps about Judge's prospect profile. I've been very vocal about my belief that Joey Gallo is not a star in the major leagues, despite multiple top 10 prospect rankings through the years that said he would be with his game-changing power. Honestly, your reaction to this Judge thing is almost identical to DCR regarding Gallo. You post EVERY game he does well and are quiet when he has a bad night. It's tiresome. This. Just let the season play out. You're not going to change anyone's mind at this stage in the game and you are just coming off as petty and defensive. It's a really bad look for as quality of a poster as yourself. Tbh you are just wrong. Saying Aaron Judge does not have an above average hit tool is absurd. Hes also very fast, he just doesn’t steal bases because he doesn’t need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Hit tool =/= contact tool He has he highest xBABIP ever recorded in a single season since they started tracking that ****. He’s a .300 hitter who had one slump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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