AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 16 hours ago, EastsideEZ said: I love Smith as prospect him next to Mosley would give us what 9ers had with Willis and Bowman but I also don’t think he gets to 16... I an elite receiver very bad... I hope this is finally the year we get one Comparing Mosley to Bowman or Willis is an insult to both of those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastsideEZ Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 57 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Comparing Mosley to Bowman or Willis is an insult to both of those players. I disagree especially with Bowman because he had Willis in prime to learn from and adjust to the league... Mosley has never played with an elite level inside backer... in a 3-4 it makes ur job so much easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, EastsideEZ said: I disagree especially with Bowman because he had Willis in prime to learn from and adjust to the league... Mosley has never played with an elite level inside backer... in a 3-4 it makes ur job so much easier... Wouldn't Mosley be the elite-level ILB? lol And yeah Bowman was still one of the best ILB's even after Willis retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Darth Pees said: Comparing Mosley to Bowman or Willis is an insult to both of those players. Mosley is a pro bowl caliber player when healthy, especially when he cuts his weight from 250 lbs. He definitely has Bowman caliber ability, just not the last couple seasons where he bulked up. Either way he’s got very good instincts. And Roquan Smith possesses similarities to Derrick Brooks. He graded as the best coverage LB in all of college football. The last time Mosley had a good running mate was Daryl Smith and just remember how good he was that year. Lastly, I’m sure the comparison wasn’t literal. Simply a comparison of strengths of a unit. Two players don’t have to have similar games to compare a unit advantage. I’m sure we could substitute Bowman/Willis for Lewis/Scott or Urlacher/Briggs. The major difference is that Bowman/Willis were both good in coverage, Mosley/Smith might not be as good, but could be the closest tandem since. Thus it is not disrespectful. Just like it’s not disrespectful to compare Saquon Barkley to LaDainian Tomlinson.. because it’s simply a reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastsideEZ Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 All I was saying is that we would have two all pro caliber talents in the middle of a 3-4 defense... Some of our fans are so spoiled at ILB it’s ridiculous lol... kuechly and Wagner are the only two linebackers that have been consistently better than Mosley since he’s been in the NFL... no he isn’t Ray... but he’s waaaayyy better than Bart Scott ever was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensDefense3 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 not sure why this fanbase is so down on mosely, i still remember the days of jameel mcclain and josh bynes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensfanRD Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said: not sure why this fanbase is so down on mosely, i still remember the days of jameel mcclain and josh bynes... Raven fans have the goofy Philly syndrome. Just be forgetting what bad looks like. Especially when people hate the godking Flacco. I'm like, did we not see Redman, Boller, Tony Banks, Stoney Case...DO I EVEN NEED TO CONTINUE?! Like, son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Yea, I'm also totally out on this Mosley overrated take. It's pretty clear to me he's a legit blue chip difference maker. Every single year he's at or very near the top of the league in total disruptive plays (Ints, sacks, fumbles, recoverys, passes knocked away, run stuffs). Add on very good durability (2 games missed in 4years), being a team leader, and having no off the field concerns... He's no doubt going to be given (as the headlines will say) the highest ILB contract ever, a marginal inflation increase over whatever the last one was. No lost sleep here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Is there actually a stat that I can look at somewhere that aggregates "total disruptive plays" for players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 There are some lists around, but not ones that are done every year and there is no consistent definition of what a "disruption" is. Why don't you take a look at the raw data yourself and generate some queries. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi The only stat they don't have is run stuffs, so you'd need to correlate that from elsewhere. It's not hard to see how unique Mosley's production is. Basically the only guys in the discussion are the guys in this list +Wagner + David https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2014&year_max=2017&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=dt&pos[]=de&pos[]=dl&pos[]=ilb&pos[]=olb&pos[]=lb&pos[]=cb&pos[]=s&pos[]=db&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2017&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=pick_overall&conference=any&draft_pos[]=qb&draft_pos[]=rb&draft_pos[]=wr&draft_pos[]=te&draft_pos[]=e&draft_pos[]=t&draft_pos[]=g&draft_pos[]=c&draft_pos[]=ol&draft_pos[]=dt&draft_pos[]=de&draft_pos[]=dl&draft_pos[]=ilb&draft_pos[]=olb&draft_pos[]=lb&draft_pos[]=cb&draft_pos[]=s&draft_pos[]=db&draft_pos[]=k&draft_pos[]=p&c1stat=pass_defended&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=sacks&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=def_int&c3comp=gt&c3val=5&c4stat=fumbles_forced&c4comp=gt&c4val=5&c5val=1.0&order_by=tackles_solo ^This is just one query I picked after 2 minutes of thought, so INB4 accusations that I made specific to get some result. You need specificity to make a query statement. Make your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, wackywabbit said: There are some lists around, but not ones that are done every year and there is no consistent definition of what a "disruption" is. Why don't you take a look at the raw data yourself and generate some queries. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi The only stat they don't have is run stuffs, so you'd need to correlate that from elsewhere. It's not hard to see how unique Mosley's production is. Basically the only guys in the discussion are the guys in this list +Wagner + David https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2014&year_max=2017&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=dt&pos[]=de&pos[]=dl&pos[]=ilb&pos[]=olb&pos[]=lb&pos[]=cb&pos[]=s&pos[]=db&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2017&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=pick_overall&conference=any&draft_pos[]=qb&draft_pos[]=rb&draft_pos[]=wr&draft_pos[]=te&draft_pos[]=e&draft_pos[]=t&draft_pos[]=g&draft_pos[]=c&draft_pos[]=ol&draft_pos[]=dt&draft_pos[]=de&draft_pos[]=dl&draft_pos[]=ilb&draft_pos[]=olb&draft_pos[]=lb&draft_pos[]=cb&draft_pos[]=s&draft_pos[]=db&draft_pos[]=k&draft_pos[]=p&c1stat=pass_defended&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=sacks&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=def_int&c3comp=gt&c3val=5&c4stat=fumbles_forced&c4comp=gt&c4val=5&c5val=1.0&order_by=tackles_solo ^This is just one query I picked after 2 minutes of thought, so INB4 accusations that I made specific to get some result. You need specificity to make a query statement. Make your own. Yeah, if Mosley cuts weight back to that 240 lbs range he’s a true difference maker. Is he prime Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis, not even close. But is he Hall of Really Good? I definitely believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 He was a true difference maker at whatever weight he was at this year. We had the 3rd best DVOA defense. Someone was playing really well. I feel like people forget that. The top defenses all ended their season with miserable moments. But, the biggest reason we were sitting home for the playoffs was that our offense was terrible for the first half of the season. Like 32nd rank bad. If they were merely regular bad, we would have easily been sitting with double digits wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, wackywabbit said: There are some lists around, but not ones that are done every year and there is no consistent definition of what a "disruption" is. Why don't you take a look at the raw data yourself and generate some queries. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi The only stat they don't have is run stuffs, so you'd need to correlate that from elsewhere. It's not hard to see how unique Mosley's production is. Basically the only guys in the discussion are the guys in this list +Wagner + David https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2014&year_max=2017&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=dt&pos[]=de&pos[]=dl&pos[]=ilb&pos[]=olb&pos[]=lb&pos[]=cb&pos[]=s&pos[]=db&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2017&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=pick_overall&conference=any&draft_pos[]=qb&draft_pos[]=rb&draft_pos[]=wr&draft_pos[]=te&draft_pos[]=e&draft_pos[]=t&draft_pos[]=g&draft_pos[]=c&draft_pos[]=ol&draft_pos[]=dt&draft_pos[]=de&draft_pos[]=dl&draft_pos[]=ilb&draft_pos[]=olb&draft_pos[]=lb&draft_pos[]=cb&draft_pos[]=s&draft_pos[]=db&draft_pos[]=k&draft_pos[]=p&c1stat=pass_defended&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=sacks&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=def_int&c3comp=gt&c3val=5&c4stat=fumbles_forced&c4comp=gt&c4val=5&c5val=1.0&order_by=tackles_solo ^This is just one query I picked after 2 minutes of thought, so INB4 accusations that I made specific to get some result. You need specificity to make a query statement. Make your own. The only reason I was asking was because you said he was "consistently near the top" in disruptive plays. I wanted to see where you got that information since I couldn't easily find it via a google search. If I have the time today I'll see if I can throw a query together and get a list of the most disruptive plays. 18 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: He was a true difference maker at whatever weight he was at this year. We had the 3rd best DVOA defense. Someone was playing really well. I feel like people forget that. The top defenses all ended their season with miserable moments. But, the biggest reason we were sitting home for the playoffs was that our offense was terrible for the first half of the season. Like 32nd rank bad. If they were merely regular bad, we would have easily been sitting with double digits wins. Our defense was 3rd in DVOA largely because of who we faced, which was nobody. When we faced good DVOA teams this year, we lost. Every time. The average offensive DVOA that we faced this year (not duplicating numbers for AFCN opponents) was 19. When you add in the duplicates and the additional games, the average offensive DVOA we faced is over 20. We faced worse than the league average of DVOA over the entire season on defense. Furthermore, when you examine the littany of backup QB's we faced, it doesn't help. Were we a good defense? Sure, but the fact remains we lost the 3 games we faced to top-10 DVOA teams (Pitt x2 and Minnesota). Blame the offense all you want - everyone expected them to be bad. Everyone expected the defense to carry us, and even with everything going in their favor, they couldn't. We were 4-5 going into our bye and then coming out, when the offense started playing better, we started winning games. As for Mosley himself, I wouldn't say he was the guy who was a true difference maker for this team this year. He was 35th rated LB by PFF, and take their grades as you will, there's too big of a gap there for him to have been significantly better than that. Yes, he had the bulk tackle numbers, but not much else. If he was the difference maker that some make him out to be, our run defense wouldn't have struggled as much as it did when we lost Brandon Williams, and our pass defense wouldn't struggle as much as it does against TE's and generally-speaking over the middle. Mosley is fine against the run, and I echo the statements that I hope he drops weight and gains his athleticism back, but in terms of being a true difference maker - I especially did not see that level this year. 8 minutes ago, RavensfanRD said: You don't win a chip without him. Facts. If he more clutch players who could catch around him, he might be a 3x champion, but the world may never know. I just hope he gets cut after this year and completely spin up somewhere else. You don't even understand how giddy that would make me. Like, please God. lol I'm well aware that without Flacco transcending his usual play in 2012, we don't win a Superbowl. I'm also well aware that without Flacco and his bloated contract, we might've been a relevant team the past 5 years after that. I hope we cut him as well. I want to move on and find a QB who can play 16 games a year at an above-average level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I take PFF grades for 0 weight. So once you multiply by that, there is no difference to make. Bulk tackles weren't part of my query or my definition of disruptions. I've explained to you many times that DVOA accounts for who we play, so the opening line of your post is completely wrong. If we played bad teams, our defense held them to even worse success rates. ..and then you list off a bunch of "backup QBs" we we're lucky to face ..and then I point out we missed playing exactly ONE QB who played over half a season, and Carr wasn't even average last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.10.E Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I'm firmly in the Mosely is overrated train FWIW. Good player, yes. Great player, no. You can't have a glaring hole in your game and be considered great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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