Mastercheddaar Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 So we get Baker "Hee-Hee" Mayfield when we could have had Darnold. Guice when we could have had Barkley. Davenport when we could have had Chubb. Give up the flip #1 for #2, trade a young player and #35 when we could have gave them #12 and probably #64 for OBJ? That is all Mastercheddaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Just now, Mastercheddaar said: So we get Baker "Hee-Hee" Mayfield when we could have had Darnold. Guice when we could have had Barkley. Davenport when we could have had Chubb. Give up the flip #1 for #2, trade a young player and #35 when we could have gave them #12 and probably #64 for OBJ? Both of those statements can't be true. That's kinda the point of trading down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie's Curls Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 Dorsey understands the personal preference on DE's, QB's, and RB's...but it's Dorsey's mock, and everyone who does a mock knows the correct picks, right? Dorsey's not butt-hurt if someone thinks Barkley is light-years ahead of Guice. Dorsey just happens to disagree, and even grade Guice as a better overall prospect (blasphemy). Joe Klatt and Colin Cowherd did a nice take on whether Barkley would fall and why the other day. Dorsey thinks someone posted the link around here somewhere. Dorsey is a bit of a prototypical size-chaser when it comes to DE. If Dorsey sees the tools and quick ability to implement coaching into play as well, Dorsey is drooling over the potential finished product. With two already capable starters at DE, it allows incorporation of more progressive reps as technique, experience, and nuance. Dorsey sees this. And QB? Dorsey thinks most of us are on Team Anyone-But-Allen. Anybody else, and the Browns' fans will be able to rationalize and see it in the best light eventually. Hee-Hee. After the process, Dorsey will get Dorsey's due: Genius-hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyesNut0623 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I disagree full heartedly, if they take Mayfield when they could have had Darnold I'm gonna be pretty mad. I agree with the statement before that Mayfield has the lowest ceiling and I could argue that he has the lowest floor as well (ah the might be Allen actually). I think to say that they are even close is laughable when considering the horrible big12 defences he was playing against. IMO it should be either Darnold or Rosen and it shouldn't even be close. Look at the competition and my opinion is its pretty clear who to take #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 20 minutes ago, buckeyesNut0623 said: I disagree full heartedly, if they take Mayfield when they could have had Darnold I'm gonna be pretty mad. I agree with the statement before that Mayfield has the lowest ceiling and I could argue that he has the lowest floor as well (ah the might be Allen actually). I think to say that they are even close is laughable when considering the horrible big12 defences he was playing against. IMO it should be either Darnold or Rosen and it shouldn't even be close. Look at the competition and my opinion is its pretty clear who to take #1 Ah, more people to spread the good news of "facts exist" to! Mayfield faced better defenses this year than Darnold or Rosen (or Allen). The PAC12 was dookie, they just don't get the hype for it as much as the BIG12. They were all within a few spots of each other on average strength of defense faced. Mayfield had a couple extra cupcakes but also more games against top 10-20 D's than either Darnold or Rosen. Ceiling =/= pure physically measurable traits. Or at least, not the kind of ceiling we are all talking about (likely ceiling, like, the 80th percentile outcome). Otherwise Logan Thomas would've had the highest ceiling of any QB prospect ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyesNut0623 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Ah, more people to spread the good news of "facts exist" to! Mayfield faced better defenses this year than Darnold or Rosen (or Allen). The PAC12 was dookie, they just don't get the hype for it as much as the BIG12. They were all within a few spots of each other on average strength of defense faced. Mayfield had a couple extra cupcakes but also more games against top 10-20 D's than either Darnold or Rosen. Ceiling =/= pure physically measurable traits. Or at least, not the kind of ceiling we are all talking about (likely ceiling, like, the 80th percentile outcome). Otherwise Logan Thomas would've had the highest ceiling of any QB prospect ever. Fair enough about competition, you say they are closer than I thought? I can concede that I don't know everything (it's not like my name is freaky genius kid or something, I joke). But if that Is the case I'd still go Darnold for a couple reasons. 1st I just think he has better skill set for a AFC north team imo. 2nd I think he is a better leader. Once again very subjective but just my opinion. 3rd I'm not a fan of the Baker's cockiness. Maybe that's from being burned by the last cocky QB we drafted whether fairly or unfairly (who just publicly stated the Browns should have known he didn't like to study!! Are you freaking kidding me? But I digress). I understand why people like Baker as I was fully on board for Johny Football (what a joke) but once again whether fairly or not, I just can't seem to like Baker. I think Sam is a great leader as well. Just shown by flying out of Cleveland early to go help his teammates at USC's 2nd proday and its stuff like this that makes me like him even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDean Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 2 hours ago, buno67 said: IMO out of the top QBs, Baker has the lowest ceiling. His ceiling is light years higher than that of mr mediocre darnold. His ceiling is lower than Allen, he ceiling is probably about the same as Rosen. The thing about mayfield is that his floor and ceiling are very close. He will be very good, and it’s almost certain. Darnold will be very mediocre and that is also almost certain (not a bust by any means, just just meh for 10 years), Rosen has good upside but I think the floor is significantly lower than mayfields floor. Allen has a huge ceiling but comes with some risk. Jackson also has a huge ceiling but comes with more risk than Allen. In short, it’s either mayfield or Allen if we must choose a qb at the top of round one. If we can do a Jedi mind frack on the giants and get them to move up for mr mediocre, that is a definite win for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyesNut0623 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 minute ago, DizzyDean said: His ceiling is light years higher than that of mr mediocre darnold. His ceiling is lower than Allen, he ceiling is probably about the same as Rosen. The thing about mayfield is that his floor and ceiling are very close. He will be very good, and it’s almost certain. Darnold will be very mediocre and that is also almost certain (not a bust by any means, just just meh for 19 years), Rosen has good upside but I think the floor is significantly lower than mayfields floor. Allen has a huge ceiling but comes with some risk. Jackson also has a huge ceiling but comes with more risk than Allen. In short, it’s either mayfield or Allen if we much choose a qb at the top of round one. If we can do a Jedi mind frack on the giants and get them to move up for mr mediocre, that is a definite win for us. That is certainly your opinion but far from fact. You don't know the future, you just think you do. You call him Mr. Mediocre, I call him the best QB in this draft. Opinions is what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, buckeyesNut0623 said: Fair enough about competition, you say they are closer than I thought? I can concede that I don't know everything (it's not like my name is freaky genius kid or something, I joke). But if that Is the case I'd still go Darnold for a couple reasons. 1st I just think he has better skill set for a AFC north team imo. 2nd I think he is a better leader. Once again very subjective to just my opinion. 3rd I'm not a fan of the Baker's cockiness. Maybe that's from being burned by the last cocky QB we drafted whether fairly or unfairly (who just publicly stated the Browns should have known he didn't like to study!! Are you freaking kidding me? But I digress). I understand why people like Baker as I was fully on board for Johny Football (what a joke) but once again whether fairly or not, I just can't seem to like Baker. I think Sam is a great leader as well. Just shown by flying out of Cleveland early to go help his teammates at USC's 2nd proday and its stuff like this that makes me like him even more. General: Oh yeah, I'm fine with anybody wanting any of the top 4 this year (Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson). I just think there are good and bad reasons to like/dislike all of them, and strength of opposing defenses isn't a good one for Mayfield (height, off-field, possible system product are his legit concerns IMO). I don't think Mayfield-Manziel is a great comp either, Manziel was avidly anti-board study and had substance issues. Mayfield, at least according to his coaches, was suuuuper into learning more about the X's and O's of the game, in fact... As to the Bolded: I WAS LIKE 16 AND IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE BRAGGING IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SELF-DEPRECATING AND WEBBY WON'T LET ME CHANGE IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie's Curls Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 The purpose of Dorsey's Mock is to exploit the NYG's desire for Darnold and player contract circumstances. It most likely won't happen, but it's a fun wrinkle to think about. And also, Josh Allen sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I think that the only scenario that would be worse than taking Mayfield at #1 would having Darnold in our grasp and giving him away for Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 2 hours ago, DizzyDean said: His ceiling is light years higher than that of mr mediocre darnold. His ceiling is lower than Allen, he ceiling is probably about the same as Rosen. The thing about mayfield is that his floor and ceiling are very close. He will be very good, and it’s almost certain. Darnold will be very mediocre and that is also almost certain (not a bust by any means, just just meh for 10 years), Rosen has good upside but I think the floor is significantly lower than mayfields floor. Allen has a huge ceiling but comes with some risk. Jackson also has a huge ceiling but comes with more risk than Allen. In short, it’s either mayfield or Allen if we must choose a qb at the top of round one. If we can do a Jedi mind frack on the giants and get them to move up for mr mediocre, that is a definite win for us. Rosen has a lower floor than Mayfield??? what? Rosen has the better mechanics, prototypical size, and ran a pro system in college. Your evalution is way off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattleman78 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 If Saquan Barkley fall to Tampa Bay at pick 7 I'm calling up and trying to trade for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDean Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 hours ago, buckeyesNut0623 said: That is certainly your opinion but far from fact. You don't know the future, you just think you do. You call him Mr. Mediocre, I call him the best QB in this draft. Opinions is what they are. Its only opinion until it is proven correct in time, kind of like most years around this time :-D The only one I looked even remotely close to wrong about last year was Watson, and his team (smartly actually) tailored the offense to him and really simplified it to help him do well. Then he was hurt and done for the year after a few games. Trubisky, Kizer, Mahomes, Watson, I called them all before the draft, projects that should not go in round 1. Watson is the only one that showed any glimmer of doubt about my evaluation. Most years, I am right on the money with my evaluations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie's Curls Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Still on the Mahomes bandwagon. Definitely whiffed on my Watson evaluation, didn't realize that his mobility translated so well to the NFL. Makes me think I'm being too hard on Lamar Jackson this year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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