Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

[turtle28]

21 hours ago, Woz said:

Honestly asking: how much of is that Brooks' scheme (or lack thereof) vs. the players ability/desire?

Don't know tbh, but they are very young and don't have an elite defender on their team. So, even if they had the best defensive coaches in the league, I think the best they'd be is average w/ a great scheme.

[turtle28]

 

[Skinsin2013]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:20 AM, turtle28 said:

What? How is missing the playoffs & getting a top 5 pick the worst-case scenario? They need a top 5 pick.

And nowadays, players come back from Achilles injuries all the time now and major major ligament tears. Wall will be back, and maybe he won't be a 20 to 23 point scorer next year but he’ll still be near 20 pts and average near or over 10 assists a game.

Wall comes back and is a double-double guy next year w/ Beal leading the team in scoring and being the #1 scoring option and then TBJ, Rui and Bryant in the frontcourt plus a top 5 pick and they'll be a playoff team in 2020-2021.

A "crap pick" is a pick in the mid-teens. That's what happens when you fence sit, which may be very well we're the heading. I'd LOVE it if they got a top five pick.

Besides not playing defense, this team has depth and good young talent. So that may make them an average team when it's all said and done.

Wall is as slim as he's been in a long time. That's an indictment really.

This still will NEVER be a championship contender with so much money committed to Wall and Beal.

[Skinsin2013]

BTW. Beal was a -41 the other night. Is that some sort of record?

[MikeT14]

15 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

BTW. Beal was a -41 the other night. Is that some sort of record?

From what I could find since 2000: Record is a +57 by Luc Mbah a Moute in 2017. On the other end, Manny Harris recorded a -57 in 2011. 

-41 is bad, but it would be T-66 since 2000.

[MikeT14]

Just now, MikeT14 said:

From what I could find since 2000: Record is a +57 by Luc Mbah a Moute in 2017. On the other end, Manny Harris recorded a -57 in 2011. 

-41 is bad, but it would be T-66 since 2000.

Kelly Oubre had a -42 in 2017.

[Skinsin2013]

7 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

41 is bad, but it would be T-66 since 2000.

So you get 3 or 4 of those a year on average.

I mean, this really isn't a surprise. Wall and Beal have always been weak on D. Short bursts (a block from behind) here and there. But poor overall.

[LoganF89]

What I want to know is why is Bonga still starting at SF, I much rather have either Miles, Bertrans, or Brown be playing that spot. Bonga hasn’t showed me anything

[e16bball]

17 hours ago, LoganF89 said:

What I want to know is why is Bonga still starting at SF, I much rather have either Miles, Bertrans, or Brown be playing that spot. Bonga hasn’t showed me anything

Because tomorrow is his 20th birthday. He’s one of the youngest players in the NBA, and he needs court time to start tapping into his substantial upside as a 6’8 point forward.

I’ve already mentioned several times that at Bonga’s age, Rui Hachimura was just a role player in the West Coast Conference. Davis Bertans was averaging 6 points on 38% shooting in the EuroLeague. CJ Miles posted a 2.8 PER in 37 games for the Jazz (spent the rest of the year with the Idaho Stampede) and was the target of the famous “We can't put diapers on him one night, and a jockstrap the next night” line uttered by Jerry Sloan. Admiral Schofield was coming off the bench at Tennessee, unable to crack the lineup and stuck behind a gent named Robert Hubbs, who played last season with the Kongsberg Miners (who are, admittedly, one of Norway’s best teams). 

The point is, you don’t bench a kid who can reasonably hold his own in the NBA at such a young age. Yes, he’s had some struggles the last few games. Of course he has, he’s still too young to compete with the grown men in the NBA. Look at how some of the similarly young players are doing around the league — Darius Garland, Cam Reddish, Kevin Porter Jr., Jarrett Culver, Jordan Poole, Darius Bazley, Coby White, even Troy Brown last year. They’re a mess. They need time. So does Bonga. 

As to the specific issue of starting him, I think that’s a strategic thing to try to add some balance to the two “units.” When you’ve got Beal, Rui, Bryant, and now IT on the starting unit, you don’t need much more scoring punch with that group. You need someone with some length, the ability to move the ball, and exist without a ton of touches or shots. By keeping guys like Brown and Bertans and Wagner on the second unit, they have more firepower on that group and those guys get to have the ball in their hands more than they would if they were out there with the starters.  

That said, I’d be fine if they started Brown over Bonga. But as for the other suggestions, Bertans is a 27-year-old pure stretch 4 — he is what he is — and I don’t understand why 32-year-old CJ Miles is even getting minutes (let alone starting) on a team that needs to lose, lose, and lose some more this year. They need to commit to a rough season built on developing their youngest talent and positioning themselves for one last shot at the top of the lottery. And they don’t need to worry so much about “who’s starting” or whether they have a better (now) veteran player than some of the young prospects that could one day become a keeper. 

[turtle28]

On 11/5/2019 at 4:42 PM, Skinsin2013 said:

A "crap pick" is a pick in the mid-teens. That's what happens when you fence sit, which may be very well we're the heading. I'd LOVE it if they got a top five pick.

Besides not playing defense, this team has depth and good young talent. So that may make them an average team when it's all said and done.

Wall is as slim as he's been in a long time. That's an indictment really.

This still will NEVER be a championship contender with so much money committed to Wall and Beal.

So, you’re talking about future drafts? Not next years draft?

I thought you were referring to next years draft. My bad for missing that.

Next year’s draft they’ll likely have a top 5 pick - at best top 10 again like last year - No way, they’re going to be competing for a playoff spot this year.  Right now they’re 4-8, tied for the 6th worst record in the NBA and they’ve only played 12 games when some teams have played as much as 16 or 17.

Yeah, I agree they’ll never win a championship with so much money committed to Beal and Wall, but they will continue to be entertaining, something worth watching, contending and a playoff team with them that can win a playoff series and their young core - which will probably get a top 5 pick next year - and I’m fine with that.

Given the Wizards have been mostly a laughing stock in the league since a few years after I was born save a few Webber years, a few Arenas years and now the Wall era, in perfectly fine with the Wizards continuing too be a top 6 team in the eastern conference with Wall/Beal and these young guys until Wall/Beal retire.

I get that others think if we trade them both that somehow they front office will rebuild the Wizards into a championship contender w/ different players, but sorry, I don’t believe it. I believe being a good playoff team but not a championship contender is as good as the Wizards can do as a franchise. This is not a destination franchise that the top players in the NBA consider signing at or want traded to and in order to win a championship you need an elite player. 

One you accept that reality, you’ll accept being just above average but not great with Wall/Beal leading the team to around 50 wins a year.

Edited November 21, 2019 by turtle28

[turtle28]

On 11/5/2019 at 4:43 PM, Skinsin2013 said:

BTW. Beal was a -41 the other night. Is that some sort of record?

I’ve said for several years he needs to be more consistent. I still haven’t seen it. He did play well last night in the win vs San Antonio though.

[turtle28]

Wizards beat Spurs 138-132 behind Beal’s 34 points (3/7 from 3), 4 assts and 4 rebounds!

Bertans: 21 pts, 5 assts, 4 rebs (4/7 from 3)

Ish: 21 pts, 4 rebs, 4 assts
Rui: 15 pts, 7 rebs, 2 assts

Wagner: 13 pts, 6 rebs, 3 assts (3/4 from 3)

Bryant: 11 pts, 5 rebs, 6 assts (1/1 from 3)

IT: 11pts, 6 assts (3/4 from 3)

McRae: 8 pts, 2 rebs, 2 assts(3/4 from 3)

[lavar703]

If you’re complaining about Beal this year then you’re complaining just to do so. With that said, this team is much better. Their record is not indicative of their improvement. 

[turtle28]

26 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

If you’re complaining about Beal this year then you’re complaining just to do so. With that said, this team is much better. Their record is not indicative of their improvement. 

Much better than last year? I don’t think so. They have better talent to develop for the future but I don’t think they win 30 games. They can score but they play even worse D than last year. So, bc of that they’re not better. They're the worst defensive team in the league.
 

The combinations they had last year at PG (Wall/Sato) & SF (Porter, Oubre, Ariza) last year were better for sure. Can’t sleep on Parker and Portis either. Bertans and Wagner are better shooters than them but they’re not better athletes or better all around basketball players.

Edited November 21, 2019 by turtle28

[LoganF89]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Much better than last year? I don’t think so. They have better talent to develop for the future but I don’t think they win 30 games. They can score but they play even worse D than last year. So, bc of that they’re not better. They're the worst defensive team in the league.
 

The combinations they had last year at PG (Wall/Sato) & SF (Porter, Oubre, Ariza) last year were better for sure. Can’t sleep on Parker and Portis either. Bertans and Wagner are better shooters than them but they’re not better athletes or better all around basketball players.

I see where your coming from but at the same time Porter, Sato, Oubre, Parker, and Portis weren’t consistent. And at times overhyped bc they had a good game here and there.

our bench this year has played surprisingly well. Especially Wagner, and Bertans