Old Devils Thread (Lock 'er up please)

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1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Man, I want Dallas to get desperate and give us Oettinger and Harley lol. No draft pick would be necessary. I'd actually add in the deal to get both if we could. 

Friedman says that we want guys who are close (can't say that I blame him), so I wonder how the skews the possible trades. Are we okay with taking on guys who are in juniors and likely at least a season or two away? 

[beekay414]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

Friedman says that we want guys who are close (can't say that I blame him), so I wonder how the skews the possible trades. Are we okay with taking on guys who are in juniors and likely at least a season or two away? 

Well, Oettinger's close, technically.

He's also blocked by Bishop for the next 4 years. 

I dunno. I just want this to be over with lol.

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1 hour ago, Canadian Saint said:

 

I also think GMs are now hesitant to give up too many prospects/picks. Not only due to the salary cap, but the next draft is supposed to be an incredibly deep one, like say 2006 (where you could get a franchise C with a 1st round pick in the teens). In addition, looming expansion draft, teams are going to hoard assets that don't need to be protected. It's going to hamper your return a bit.

Agree with this a lot. I think that there are two "quality" pieces coming back to the Devils, and you can debate whether a first round pick likely to be 25-31 is really a quality piece. I think it's a first round pick, a good but maybe not great prospect, and then maybe some sort of throw in (possibly a low end roster player or an upside prospect flier or a middle round pick in a future year). 

I also don't know that the feeling on Hall around the league is similar to how a lot of fans actually view him. Obviously, tremendous offensive talent (the fact that he's been miserable this year and will still probably hit 75 points says everything you need to know), but I don't know that people view him as "the guy". 28, needing a new contract (and an expensive one at that), injury history. It's not like people were beating down the Oilers door a few years ago to acquire him either. I almost feel like it's the type of situation where Shero is calling around trying to get teams to offer things up as opposed to teams calling the Devils and offering things up, if that makes sense. 

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Just now, beekay414 said:

Well, Oettinger's close, technically.

He's also blocked by Bishop for the next 4 years. 

I dunno. I just want this to be over with lol.

Preaching to the choir on wanting this to be over. I'm just ready to turn the page. This version of the Devils is over and done with, and we can't move past this iteration of the team until he's gone because so much of what we do on this team still runs through him (which is both good and bad). 

Honestly, I'd give serious thoughts to unloading Palms as well. With another year left on a very friendly salary, he'd get a nice return. He'll be 29 at the end of this season, and at this juncture, I can't say that we are going to be legitimate contenders during his tenure as I think we are further than a year away from competing. I don't see how he's a part of this rebuild right now. I am not going to hate it if we keep him, but he's an interesting guy to think about moving on from. 

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Also, given that we are going to have a ton of space again next season, we should consider taking a cap dump back to increase our return. Without Hall and his monster extension on the books (10 million), Greene coming off (5 mil), Vats potentially (almost 5) and Simmonds (5 million), we have a toooooooooooooooooooooon of space. Like, if we are making a move with Pitt (not sure why, but just using them as an example), why wouldn't you take Jack Johnson back at this point to help out the return? If you're the Blues, maybe we aren't on Bozak's no trade list and we take him on, or better yet, Jake Allen. 

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Also, didn't realize this, but we have completely blown past the main NHL thread which I believe started prior to last season lol. 

[Canadian Saint]

Also I have to ask, what's up with Jack Hughes? I know you guys are struggling, but his numbers look really subpar for a 1st overall. Is it an adjustment thing? A weight thing (he's tiny)? Crappy linemates? I know your coaching has sucked.

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4 minutes ago, Canadian Saint said:

Also I have to ask, what's up with Jack Hughes? I know you guys are struggling, but his numbers look really subpar for a 1st overall. Is it an adjustment thing? A weight thing (he's tiny)? Crappy linemates? I know your coaching has sucked.

Well he's been hurt before tonight. I think he missed the last 3 or 4 games.

He struggled out the gate for sure. But he's electric. You can really see it now after the bad start. But yeah, he's still a little dude and gets caved in defensively. That's just going to have to be something that comes with time. So it's a lot of factors. Some of them are on him, some of them are not. 

Coaching and putting him with bad linemates (he should never, ever be with Gusev or Bratt, both of whom also struggled with getting pushed around and lacking control of the puck when they do). His ice time was extremely sheltered in the early going as well under Hynes. So those didn't help. 

He also lacks consistency. After the terrible start, he had a nice run, and then he disappeared for a number of games. So he ebbs and flows. Right now he's on pace for about 40 points or so, which is meh. I can't really compare him to Nico who scored over 50 that first year just because he spent the entire year with Hall when he was in God Mode. 

He'll get it together, but it could take some time. But you can see the skill on display all the time. 

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Cory got pulled in an AHL game tonight. Jesus. Almost feel bad for what happened to that dude. 

[beekay414]

6 hours ago, Forge said:

Cory got pulled in an AHL game tonight. Jesus. Almost feel bad for what happened to that dude. 

If he retires, does his contract still count against us?

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4 hours ago, beekay414 said:

If he retires, does his contract still count against us?

Not really sure. Honestly though, don't think it matters because asking him to give up 15+ million over the next two plus years is probably not realistic. I know if I were in his shoes I wouldn't lol. If he can physically play, I'm sure he will. That's what I would do. 

So basically, we will have him the rest of the year. Next year, without Hall, we are once again going to have a ton of space. Right now, we only have 56 million used up. Even if we assume a flat cap, that's still 25 million in space that we have, and that is with Schneider. It also includes the Cammalleri buyout. The only two meaningful RFAs we have are Bratt and Blackwood. Bratt looks lost and is struggling, so that's not going to be a big contract at all. Blackwood is inconsistent. Between the two of them, maybe at most we give up 6 million, and I think that's actually on the high end. Assuming we actually trade Wood this season, that probably will cover one of them right there as well. 

We will have to replace Greene, Vats, Simmonds and Hall in the lineup. My guess is that Hall is largely going to be replaced in house. That will be Boqvist getting more consistent playing time along with Gusev. Probably looking at a top nine along the lines of something like

Gusev - Nico - Palms

Zacha - Hughes - Bratt 

Boqvist - Zajac - Coleman

It's actually crazy how much that is fairly similar to what we are running out there now. I see no reason why we would bring Rooney back (though our infatuation with him means that we probably will), but assuming that Wood is traded this year, that means that we basically need to replace the entire 4th line. This really isn't that big of a deal and can be made up of a number of Bingo guys who have experience at the NHL level. Sadly, Bingo once again is horrific and all of our prospects pretty much suck, but it is what it is. Can't change all those prospects now. So you could easily see a 4th line of something like Seney, who I assume would get first crack (leads Bingo at scoring out of the guys who are considered "prospects", and even though he has no chance to be anything at the NHL level, he'll get first shot) along with giving roles to Mikey and Bastian or Joey Anderson. 

The defense is probably where we will have to bring in external help. Assuming that Ty Smith finally finds a role on this team (not a guarantee), he makes up for Greene. We could theoretically resign Vats, but if not, we really don't have anything else close to being able to help out. Mirco is an RFA, and honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even tender him. I'd just let him go. So that may be something we have to dip into free agency for, along with a goalie to replace Domingue. This could also be resolved through the Hall trade. 

Since we can feel fairly comfortable that none of the big name free agents are coming our way, there's not really much there for us to sign externally at a hefty price. Maybe a Simmonds type deal, one or two year overpay. We aren't getting Pietrangelo or Krug. If anything, we are going to get other teams' cap dumps in order for them to sign those guys lol. 

So honestly, there's no reason to buy out Cory next season either. Let him sit in the AHL and collect checks. Its simply brutal how bad this team is right now. It's amazing that an albatross of a contract like Cory's is never going to be a real issue, even with him in the AHL. 

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There is some funny conversation going on about Jack Hughes on the other board. People freaking out about the lack of production because he's on a pace for a really bad season statistically (only 36 points). The saddest part is, while I think it's asinine to even talk about a kid 25 games into his NHL career at 18 years old, especially given how bad the team is around him, I actually understand where the concern is coming from. If he puts up 40 or less his first year, that would be  one of the worst rookie seasons for a #1 overall in the last 20 years. Statistically, he's having a pretty horrific season for a number one overall. Hell, even Yakupov managed to get 31 points in 48 games. Hughes is on pace to barely eclipse that in 70+ games lol.  But I don't know how you watch a game like last night, see him on the ice and how he's basically skating circles around people, and still have huge concerns about his production. I mean, that has to come at some point. He is simply too good for it not to. 

Not to mention that I think situations like that are an arbitrary cut off. I mean, Eric Staal had 31 points his rookie season (81 games), and I think it's disingenuous to the spirit of the conversation to exclude him just because he happened to go #2 that year. This year, Kaako has one more point in one more game. And as another guy said, Stamkos had 14 points through 40 games before he started to get it together. A number of other guys had very slow starts as well. Nico had 50+ points but carried on the back of playing all year with Taylor Hall on God mode, something Jack does not have the luxury of doing (which honestly, given what has happened in the two years since that rookie season, really makes you wonder about Nico moving forward. Is it possible that we basically drafted Travis Zajac #1OA when we drafted Nico?)

[flyers0909]

5 hours ago, Forge said:

There is some funny conversation going on about Jack Hughes on the other board. People freaking out about the lack of production because he's on a pace for a really bad season statistically (only 36 points). The saddest part is, while I think it's asinine to even talk about a kid 25 games into his NHL career at 18 years old, especially given how bad the team is around him, I actually understand where the concern is coming from. If he puts up 40 or less his first year, that would be  one of the worst rookie seasons for a #1 overall in the last 20 years. Statistically, he's having a pretty horrific season for a number one overall. Hell, even Yakupov managed to get 31 points in 48 games. Hughes is on pace to barely eclipse that in 70+ games lol.  But I don't know how you watch a game like last night, see him on the ice and how he's basically skating circles around people, and still have huge concerns about his production. I mean, that has to come at some point. He is simply too good for it not to. 

Not to mention that I think situations like that are an arbitrary cut off. I mean, Eric Staal had 31 points his rookie season (81 games), and I think it's disingenuous to the spirit of the conversation to exclude him just because he happened to go #2 that year. This year, Kaako has one more point in one more game. And as another guy said, Stamkos had 14 points through 40 games before he started to get it together. A number of other guys had very slow starts as well. Nico had 50+ points but carried on the back of playing all year with Taylor Hall on God mode, something Jack does not have the luxury of doing (which honestly, given what has happened in the two years since that rookie season, really makes you wonder about Nico moving forward. Is it possible that we basically drafted Travis Zajac #1OA when we drafted Nico?)

Wasn't he playing with trash to start the year?  Even with that his shot share has been great relative to the team this year.  When he's on the ice the Devils are +1% in shots for compared to the league, with him off the team is -13%.  On the other end shots against when he's on the ice is -16%, team is -4% without him.  

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40 minutes ago, flyers0909 said:

Wasn't he playing with trash to start the year?  Even with that his shot share has been great relative to the team this year.  When he's on the ice the Devils are +1% in shots for compared to the league, with him off the team is -13%.  On the other end shots against when he's on the ice is -16%, team is -4% without him.  

Have you seen our roster? He's still playing with trash LOL

But no, seriously. Yes. They didn't know what to do with him to start, and they made the mistake of pairing him with Goose or Bratt early on, and you simply can't do that at 5x5 hockey. They will just get destroyed. Then they were playing him like 9-10 minutes a night early on, and even still he's not getting PP1 time.

When he plays on the top line with Palms and Hall, they have a 57% CF, 58% Fenwick, 62.8% XGF with 10 more high danger scoring chances for than against (21 - 11). But you know Hynes lol. Thankfully, Nas has put them together to start off his interim career. Hopefully that keeps up. 

I honestly don't understand the struggle with lines. It really isn't rocket surgery, yet Hynes was an abject disaster at it. The Devils' top 9 should be set in stone. If you want to shuffle up a little in game, or make some changes now and again to get out of a rut, I understand, but for the most part, your top 9 should be: 

Hall - Hughes - Palms

Zacha - Nico - Bratt

Goose - Zajac - Coleman. 

That third line still gives more than it gets, but it's the one line where Goose has played really well and hasn't been a black hole with regards to possession. 100 minutes with those two, basically a dead even 50% Corsi / Fenwick / Shots, xGF% 53. 4 more high danger chances against than for, but without those two, Goose is a disaster. 113 minutes without them both,  37-38% C / F / S, xGF% 35.5!

You can debate some things - like whether or not Bratt should be a top 6 forward, but it's not like we have a superior option at the current point in time, so you just need to roll with it regardless. 

 

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@beekay414 rumor posted on hf says Hall has played his last home game for us and that a trade will be finalized to the Avs soon. The guy isn't a known insider, but apparently has had good info before and is followed by a number of industry guys. 

Not sure I'm going to put any stock in it, but interesting none the less. Especially if Hall ends up a late scratch for tonight