N4L Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Giants fire Mcadoo. Their remaining games are cowboys, Eagles, cardinals, redskins Maybe they can sneak a win in one of these divisional games, or perhaps against the cardinals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 That would be great. But we're looking more likely to win another game. That not means they need to win 2 more, It also would put us in the running with the Colts, Broncos and Bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I would just prefer to finish 6-10 and not have to worry about draft position whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 30 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: I would just prefer to finish 6-10 and not have to worry about draft position whatsoever. Only upside I see to that is Jimmy G getting more experience. I guess it depends if you want a higher pick or our new QB getting more accustomed to the system. I want Nelson in the draft for offensive line help, and I'm hoping wherever we end up being slotted we'll still have a crack at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Only upside I see to that is Jimmy G getting more experience. I guess it depends if you want a higher pick or our new QB getting more accustomed to the system. I want Nelson in the draft for offensive line help, and I'm hoping wherever we end up being slotted we'll still have a crack at him. I've never really cared about pick order. In 2005, everyone wanted to lose to the Texans in the last game because that means we'd get the #1 pick and Reggie Bush. Instead, we fell to 6th, selected Vernon Davis and Frank Gore was allowed to start his way to the Hall of Fame. In 2006, we won the last game. We ended up with Patrick Willis. In 2008, we won the last game. We ended up with Michael Crabtree. The only time I can think of where winning a "meaningless" game actually "hurt" the team was in 2010 when we won Jim Tomsula's head coaching debut, and the slide cost us Patrick Peterson in favor of Aldon Smith. And that assumes that Patrick Peterson would have been the pick. I believe in winning. And wanting to win. And now that I'm convinced we have a QB, there's not reason to even need that high of a pick. There are great players that will be available wherever we pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, y2lamanaki said: I've never really cared about pick order. In 2005, everyone wanted to lose to the Texans in the last game because that means we'd get the #1 pick and Reggie Bush. Instead, we fell to 6th, selected Vernon Davis and Frank Gore was allowed to start his way to the Hall of Fame. In 2006, we won the last game. We ended up with Patrick Willis. In 2008, we won the last game. We ended up with Michael Crabtree. The only time I can think of where winning a "meaningless" game actually "hurt" the team was in 2010 when we won Jim Tomsula's head coaching debut, and the slide cost us Patrick Peterson in favor of Aldon Smith. And that assumes that Patrick Peterson would have been the pick. I believe in winning. And wanting to win. And now that I'm convinced we have a QB, there's not reason to even need that high of a pick. There are great players that will be available wherever we pick. For this draft, it was always about trading out and getting a windfall. If we aren't number 2, then I think any of the other picks are pretty interchangeable for potential trades, to be quite honest, so it doesn't really matter. At this point, if we are thinking that we won't trade out of the spot since we are no longer at two, then 3-6 really doesn't matter. I think that we have a legit shot at Nelson, Key, Chubb, Barkley, or whoever else has been mentioned as a guy someone in here wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, Forge said: For this draft, it was always about trading out and getting a windfall. If we aren't number 2, then I think any of the other picks are pretty interchangeable for potential trades, to be quite honest, so it doesn't really matter. At this point, if we are thinking that we won't trade out of the spot since we are no longer at two, then 3-6 really doesn't matter. I think that we have a legit shot at Nelson, Key, Chubb, Barkley, or whoever else has been mentioned as a guy someone in here wants. I get that, but there are still a lot of variables in that. Players still need to declare. There's no guarantee that there's a trade there. Could be no better than last year. So...I'm not concerned. I just want to HIT the pick. Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, whoever...if any are what we want, we're a much-improved team. And if Jimmy Garoppolo wins all 5 starts with this offensive line, this wide receiving crew, this team after getting the playbook 34 days ago...then next year with even better talent could be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 7 hours ago, y2lamanaki said: I've never really cared about pick order. In 2005, everyone wanted to lose to the Texans in the last game because that means we'd get the #1 pick and Reggie Bush. Instead, we fell to 6th, selected Vernon Davis and Frank Gore was allowed to start his way to the Hall of Fame. In 2006, we won the last game. We ended up with Patrick Willis. In 2008, we won the last game. We ended up with Michael Crabtree. The only time I can think of where winning a "meaningless" game actually "hurt" the team was in 2010 when we won Jim Tomsula's head coaching debut, and the slide cost us Patrick Peterson in favor of Aldon Smith. And that assumes that Patrick Peterson would have been the pick. I believe in winning. And wanting to win. And now that I'm convinced we have a QB, there's not reason to even need that high of a pick. There are great players that will be available wherever we pick. To add to your point, JJ Watt was still available when we drafted Aldon, so it's not like that game really cost us a shot at a top flight talent (that draft was stacked, shame Aldon and kaep are both out of the league and we don't have anything to show for it). To counter the argument, winning last year cost us Myles Garrett. I'm all for letting the chips fall as they may. When we win, I'll be happy for Kyle and the players on the team. When we lose I'll be happy to gain/retain draft position. It's a win-win for me and I'm just happy to have something to cheer for. Knowing you have a QB, and another young QB who we can develop behind him has really taken the heat off of everyone in the building. Having some confidence going into the off season will really help us build up the program. If we would have gone 0-16 or 1-15 then I'm sure it would allow doubt to grow in everyones mind all off season to the point where changes might be made for changes sake even though it just needed more time. If we win 2-3 more games then we can really look back at all of those games we lost by 3 or less and say if we had garoppolo that at least half of them were wins. Kind of makes you think that with a couple of key additions plus getting healthy could mean we are in the hunt for a wildcard spot this time next year (this late in the season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 9 hours ago, N4L said: To add to your point, JJ Watt was still available when we drafted Aldon, so it's not like that game really cost us a shot at a top flight talent (that draft was stacked, shame Aldon and kaep are both out of the league and we don't have anything to show for it). To counter the argument, winning last year cost us Myles Garrett. I'm all for letting the chips fall as they may. When we win, I'll be happy for Kyle and the players on the team. When we lose I'll be happy to gain/retain draft position. It's a win-win for me and I'm just happy to have something to cheer for. Knowing you have a QB, and another young QB who we can develop behind him has really taken the heat off of everyone in the building. Having some confidence going into the off season will really help us build up the program. If we would have gone 0-16 or 1-15 then I'm sure it would allow doubt to grow in everyones mind all off season to the point where changes might be made for changes sake even though it just needed more time. If we win 2-3 more games then we can really look back at all of those games we lost by 3 or less and say if we had garoppolo that at least half of them were wins. Kind of makes you think that with a couple of key additions plus getting healthy could mean we are in the hunt for a wildcard spot this time next year (this late in the season). Probably the best way to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 21 hours ago, Forge said: For this draft, it was always about trading out and getting a windfall. If we aren't number 2, then I think any of the other picks are pretty interchangeable for potential trades, to be quite honest, so it doesn't really matter. At this point, if we are thinking that we won't trade out of the spot since we are no longer at two, then 3-6 really doesn't matter. I think that we have a legit shot at Nelson, Key, Chubb, Barkley, or whoever else has been mentioned as a guy someone in here wants. Exactly this. Of course it's better to be picking to be picking four spots higher no matter where you end up picking. It's always better to be picking higher than lower. But this year was one of those years wherre there appear to be very promising QBs available and a lot fo teams in need. Even though some people would never trade a boatload of picks for a chance at a high pick to get a QB the fact is that teams do it all the time. This is one year wherre the number two pick is likely to worth a number of picks. Of course it's not a given, but this year it's possible that if a team ends up picking 2nd instead of 6th they could turn that pick into the 6th plus and extra first, second and third. In a year like this we're not talking about the difference between the one guy we could get a 2 vs the one guy we could get at 6. We MIGHT be talking about the one guy we could get at 6 vs the several high-pick guys we could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 4 hours ago, big9erfan said: Exactly this. Of course it's better to be picking to be picking four spots higher no matter where you end up picking. It's always better to be picking higher than lower. But this year was one of those years wherre there appear to be very promising QBs available and a lot fo teams in need. Even though you personally would never trade a boatload of picks for a chance at a high pick to get a QB the fact is that teams do it all the time. This is one year wherre the number two pick is likely to worth a number of picks. Of course it's not a given, but this year it's possible that if a team ends up picking 2nd instead of 6th they could turn that pick into the 6th plus and extra first, second and third. In a year like this we're not talking about the difference between the one guy we could get a 2 vs the one guy we could get at 6. We MIGHT be talking about the one guy we could get at 6 vs the several high-pick guys we could get. With all things being equal, having #2 and trading back to 6 and getting 2-3 high picks in return is better than picking at #6. No doubt about it. The problem is that all things are not equal. Getting some wins, gaining some confidence, getting momentum into the off season has effects that are not quantifiable in the same manner as draft picks. Momentum into the off season is real, it has to do with the human psychy. If guys believe they can win enough games to make the playoffs they are more likely to work hard in the off-season. It's why people talk about "developing a winning culture". I hear you though, getting all of those picks from a team like Denver or whoever (especially a future first rounder) would certainly jump start our team. Fun fact, the 1980 49ers went 6-10. Y2 said earlier he thinks we will go 6-10. That would be interesting to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I predictied 5-6 wins for us this year. It's taken me till this past week to think there is any remote chance of that happening. Still not overly likely, but it just could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 54 minutes ago, N4L said: Fun fact, the 1980 49ers went 6-10. Y2 said earlier he thinks we will go 6-10. That would be interesting to say the least Whoa...I want to go 6-10. It's not impossible, but I don't think it'll happen. But momentum is legit. Ask the 2011 Seahawks. They were like 2-7, and then finished 5-2 and next season were a playoff team and one year away from a Super Bowl. When a young team gets used to winning and has a competitive coach (which we have), they'll learn to not accept less. I want 6-10 because that would be 100% the result of Jimmy Garoppolo. That would mean 5-0 as a starter on a low-talented, heavily-injured team while having only known the playbook for 34 days. By comparison - Garoppolo is now where Hoyer was in mid-April (in terms of immersion in the playbook), only that's even a little skewed in Hoyer's favor having played for Shanahan before. Obviously, in-game/padded practices have helped move him along further than where Hoyer would have been in April, but that's still incredible. Meaning - sky's the limit in future seasons with a further improved roster and a QB that went undefeated with the guys we have. I mean, if Goodwin suddenly finishes this year with 1000 yards (which he will if he averages what he had last game for the final 4), and Taylor continues to play this well, what happens when we add Garcon back, and maybe find a redzone threat? Add in young players getting used to winning and what it takes, and the growing confidence that comes from playing with a QB like that...and then on the QB end - Garoppolo quietly just had his first 4th quarter come from behind victory with the team to go along with the one he had in New England. That's 2 in 3 games. You start believing you always have the guy who can do that, and that - to me - is worth the extra 2nd and 3rd we wouldn't have this draft (plus an extra first in 2019). I want wins and a team that wants to win, and I like cheering for a team that says "Screw the draft, let's win out from 1-10 and show that we're a threat." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 In this year's shocker, Bruce Ellington is headed to IR. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21680686/houston-texans-place-cj-fiedorowicz-bruce-ellington-injured-reserve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I'm not sure how there are still some who are unsure about whether or not Frank Gore is a Hall of Famer or not. He's definitely going in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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