Mind Character

Of course. What's 3 or 4 more losses at this point though if those losses help protect Baker at a high-level for 10 years. Without those losses, it's just my belief that the high level immediate start OLineman will be off the board leaving us to turn to lesser talents or having to rely on Free Agency to help Baker (True high impact OLineman don't usually make it to free agency; this year there are a few but they will break the bank).

With the playoffs out, all we can hope for now is: 1.) Baker and Impact Players remain healthy 2.) That Ryan Lindley keeps clashing with players like Jarvis Landry on the sideline so the Haslam's feel like he has to go. 3.) We perform well enough to gain confidence but somehow lose out so our pick gets as close to top 12 as possible so we can draft a true high quality OLineman. Losing is the path to Andrew Thomas, LT; Jedrick Wills, OT; Tristan Wirfs, OG; or AJ Epenesa, DE.

For the first time in Eons, the Browns had the most coveted job on the NFL market. You had the likes of Josh Daniels, Bruce Arians, and Mike McCarthy publicly advertising/advocating through the media their desire to coach Baker and this team. They weren't the only ones to do so publicly and they sure as heck weren't the only one's to do so privately. Flores looks okay ... we'll know in time, but objectively that list was bad man. And that's the opinion of people in and around the NFL when they saw that our list did not include successful culture builders in their eye. More than the "Dorsey wanted a younger coach that could grow with Baker" it looks more like "Dorsey wanted a young coach that would submit to his assistant coach hire desires and give Dorsey the power in the organization so he couldn't be fired by a coach with power like Andy Reid" 1.) Gregg Williams, 2.) Brian Flores, 3.) Matt Eberflus, 4.) Jim Caldwell, 5.) Kevin Stefanski, 6.) Dan Campbell, 7.) Freddie Kitchens, 8.) Requested to interview but did not formally interview Nick Sirianni There are plenty of young coaches out there that could "grow with Baker" that have a winning track record of being a Head Coach. I'll always just have a hard time believing that those 7 men (really just 6 because Gregg was a lame duck) were truly the most qualified and best candidates for the biggest hire in franchise history.

"we felt he was the right man for the job." Speak for yourself and your brethren. There were those of us that preferred an experienced coach with credentials and experience building a winning culture to lead the organization. Our particular "We" was worried about handing over the keys to the franchise to a life-long position coach with a successful 8 game sample size run as an Offensive Coordinator against some mostly bad defenses when the primary skills of a successful Head Coach have little to do with play-calling prowess. It's not about looking like a rookie HC as many rookie HCs from day 1 show and prove that they can implement a culture and skills development program at a high-level. They have the "it" factor. Frank Reich, Sean McDermott, Kyle Shannahan, are "it" factor HCs that even through the ups and downs and learning curve mistakes still had "it." Nothing is ever certain it's hard to see Freddie with and of the longterm winning "it" factors either as HC or OC right now. I hope like heck I'm wrong.

I agree. If you were a Freddie zealot before given all the information given at the time, then don't abandon ship now. I for one was never that and advocated strongly for a Head Coach with a track record of successful winning culture building.

Seriously.. what a joke .. what a F-in mockery.. with each passing day it gets more absurd. I can't believe we had an 8-week jump start on the coaching search and that was the candidate list. John Dorsey is a good scout of talent (OLineman excluded) and knows how to build a roster, but running a coaching search and hiring a HC is not one of his strength. The Haslam's coaching search process and search firms has advised great coaches to hire in the past (i.e., Sean McDermott) the issue being that the Haslams ignored the recommendations. 8 Freakin weeks head start ... and that was the list.. lol.. the fix was in... Freddie presented Dorsey the perfect opportunity to grab power but it will likely to be at the detriment of the team's sustained success. It was the most important hire in franchise history. We knew what it would cost to reset things. We had to get it right. And we decided to hire a first year HC that had only an 8 game sample size of success as an OC to control the fate of the program for 4 years.

We should've hired Jim Caldwell the first time around. He was the most qualified. His winning records were insane for a HC that never got another look after Detroit. Though he had some tough breaks in the playoffs. 5 out of 7 seasons as a HC == winning seasons: 9-7 (Detroit) 9-7(Detroit) 10-6 (Indy) 14-2 (Indy) 11-5 (Detroit) His other 2 seasons were the Peyton Manning exit Indy Colts Andrew Luck Tank season 2-11 and 7-9 in Detroit his second year as HC -- His biggest critiques are that his face is empty and devoid of emotion on the sideline and he doesn't win press conferences. -- He's not just a rooney rule interview as he's always classified; we would've been better off hiring him. There's still time.. lol. Rivera or Caldwell 2020.

Ron Rivera is known in league circles as running a disciplined football operation. As a HC he's had one of the most consistent teams when it comes to preventing penalties of all types. https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2019 2019 - the 3rd least number of penalties; 2018 - (Tied for best in the league) 3-way tie in Least number of penalties; 2017 - (best in the league) the Least number of penalties on the year; 2016 - 7th least number of penalties 2015 - 10th least number of penalties 2014 - 4th least number of penalties 2013 - 5th least number of penalties ----- It's not luck. It's programmatic teaching of focus on task and execution in order to have a team consistently commit close the least number of penalties a given year. It takes organization and commitment to a disciplined hyper-focused plan on the details of work. If all Rivera did was make this team disciplined and focus on the details penalty-wise and beyond... if he also had a competent OC and QB coach and let Wilks run the defense, we'd be well on our way. Sign me up.

Tristan Wirfs is the best Guard-convert prospect I've ever watched. He's just okay at Tackle. All-Pro out the at gate Guard; Solid Quality Tackle out the gate because of his talent. His skills so clearly make him a guard imo it would be a complete waste of his talent to even try him out at Tackle in the pros. With that said, there's just no way he lasts until the 2nd round. However, an Epenesa, DE-Wirfs, OG pairing or Epenesa, DE paired with Jedrick Wills is the true dream of dreams this draft. I'm all aboard the AJ Epenesa train; he's going to be better in the pros than college. I don't know what we'd have to do to get it done but those would be game changers. I have a feeling Leatherwood falls to the top of the 2nd with the outside chance that Austin Jackson does so as well. Assuming Andrew Thomas, Jedrick Wills, Austin Jackson at OT and Wirfs at OG are off the board by our selection, we'd have to draft AJ Epenesa. It just makes too much sense. I have to say though I like your htinking when it comes to going heavy on the trenches. That's the way to go. I just don't think the players you picked for the most part will ever have the chance to perform at a high level if they are inserted into the starting line-up. Trey Adams is on the ground too much, doesn't have the functional strength, and isn't going to ever be a quality contributor in the pros. He does have a lot tools to bet on if we take that gamble. 3rd rounds a bit high imo. Kenny Willekes is an impact player in college with the energy we all like to see but just a rotational JAG in the pros imo. No real juice or elite technique. It would be a waste of a 3rd rounder on a guy that just is a lifetime 2-deep guy. Tre Smith is an Okay Guard prospect with bad feet but I actually like a lot of his work. This guard class is loaded so he might get pushed further down the board. Eichenberg has molasses legs and feet and slow and stiff. What he does have is an understanding of angles and how to get guys blocked at times despite his dreadful movement deficiencies. It's amazing that he lasted so long as a big time program starter. It's a credit to his hardwork and knowledge of the game to overcome his deficiencies. That said, he's more of a 7th round guy or UFA at least in the eyes of the pros. Maybe some team bets on his mental acuity and moves him to Center. That may boost his stock some. Never heard of Richard Worship.. will check him out. Haven't watched Moa yet but I heard he was nice as a run guy.

People dismissing this haven't really watched the good work Rivera has put in with mostly middling or worst talent on both sides of the ball including bad OLines and an oft-injured declining health QB. He's a good tough-minded culture leader but he's not an elite or consistently great one. This would've been the perfect type of hire this past off-season (obviously it wasn't possible then) in order to get an established winning Head Coach that can implement a tough, no excuses, disciplined program. We could've then paired Wilks, Rivera, and Holcomb together. Then, actually hired a real QB coach instead of elevated Freddie's guy Ryan Lindley. Monken would've then ran the offense with the QB Coach and Campen. We would've had a HC that could focus his time of building winning culture and being the lead administrator of a winning skills and habits football program. The ship has probably sailed on that dream as it would be doubtful that Rivera would come to the Browns and keep the same staff intact that Dorsey wants. With that said, anyone that doesn't think that Rivera would be an upgrade over Freddie has already drunk the kool-aid and is obliviously riding the wave.

@BrownLeader Your post actually had some good positive momentum but lost complete steam at the end with that list. I do however think that you're right in that Phillip Rivers, Teddy Bridgewater, and Andy Dalton could've have done as well if not better with this same talent this year than Baker has done. Rivers being a specialist at diagnosing defenses and getting the ball out could've mitigated the oline issues and Bridgewater and Dalton have good pocket mobility and can read defenses better than Baker. Baker has been dreadful at processing the game and reading defenses this year. Anyone that thinks Rivers, Dalton, and Bridgewater couldn't read the game and deliver on time better than Baker is unwilling to look at reality. That said, you can't possibly really think that longterm or even shorterm-wise that any of those QBs on the list would be an upgrade over Baker... right? If so, I'm afraid that assessment would not be correct assuming that Baker can get back to a more consistently positive trajectory. Your points about teams/QBs doing more with less (even on the OLine) and how we should still be able to do better than 13 points in critical games with 3 All-Pros (Chubb, Hunt, OBJ) and 2 Pro-Bowlers (Landry and Bitonio) is a valid one.

I see a lot of people saying stuff like, "... if Freddie goes 7-9 he shouldn't get another year, but if he goes 8-8 he deserves another year ... we haven't been 8-8 in forever and it would be crazy to fire a coach that goes .500 in his first year..." That line of logic doesn't make much sense nor does the obsession with a .500 Win-Loss Record being an indicator that should justify whether Freddie should keep his job or not. The record is much like a box-score stat in that 8-8 is not necessarily 8-8 just as 2 QB Interceptions aren't exactly as the same as a different instance of 2 QB interceptions. As always the context and detail regarding how the team performed/looked in particular games is what truly matters. In fact, there are plenty of scenarios where a 6-10 or 7-9 record would be more indicative of future success and reasons to keep Freddie than a 8-8 scenario. 12 games in... the question of "Should we bring back Freddie?" should be more about whether or not Freddie is believed to be able to effectively coach and coordinate this team to sustained winning and all that entails. It shouldn't have anything to do with comparing our record to past incompetent records during a historic losing run or whether or not we feel like "the next guy will probably worse." 12 games in... It's interesting to look at this season week by week and think about how the team and coaches were able or not able to effect positive change: We Don't Belong Games (5): Titans, 49ers, Broncos, Steelers II., Jets Mostly a Mess Games (1): Rams Critical Fatal Flaws; Competence in Question Games (3): Patriots (after bye week crazy penalties; good offensive game plan), Seahawks (Situational play-calling, redzone, and critical situation issues/errors) Meh Games (1): Steelers I. (1-score game all the way with offense sputtering out despite forcing 4 turnovers; defense played well) Good; Looked like a Competent and Potentially Consistently Dominant Team (2): Ravens and Dolphins 1 Sun, 9/8 vsTEN L43-13 0-1 Mayfield 285 Chubb 75 Beckham Jr. 71 2 Mon, 9/16 @NYJ W23-3 1-1 Mayfield 325 Chubb 62 Beckham Jr. 161 3 Sun, 9/22 vsLAR L20-13 1-2 Mayfield 195 Chubb 96 Landry 62 4 Sun, 9/29 @BAL W40-25 2-2 Mayfield 342 Chubb 165 Landry 167 5 Mon, 10/7 @SF L31-3 2-3 Mayfield 100 Chubb 87 Landry 75 6 Sun, 10/13 vsSEA L32-28 2-4 Mayfield 249 Chubb 122 Beckham Jr. 101 7 BYE WEEK 8 Sun, 10/27 @NE L27-13 2-5 Mayfield 194 Chubb 131 Landry 65 9 Sun, 11/3 @DEN L24-19 2-6 Mayfield 273 Chubb 65 Beckham Jr. 87 10 Sun, 11/10 vsBUF W19-16 3-6 Mayfield 238 Chubb 116 Landry 97 11 Thu, 11/14 vsPIT W21-7 4-6 Mayfield 193 Chubb 92 Beckham Jr. 60 12 Sun, 11/24 vsMIA W41-24 5-6 Mayfield 327 Chubb 106 Landry 148 13 Sun, 12/1 @PIT L20-13 5-7 Mayfield 196 Chubb 58 Landry 76 ... It's just hard to see it. It just really is. I don't care about win-loss record per se. The way we've consistently looked really detailing out how games have gone in their entirety it's so difficult and hard to see how Freddie Kitchens is going to be able to consistently effect positive change with this team and future teams in ways that lead to high level play, high level competitive execution, and sustained winning. Anyone blaming things all on Freddie isn't a person to be taken seriously. That said, those sitting here with clear vision on Freddie hugged up with Baker after winning the division or winning a playoff game are imo holding onto wishful feel-good fantasies that won't come to fruition for a lot of the multitude of things we've all observed this season. It's ultimately why I think firing Freddie makes more sense than not doing so. The way the players talk about our program and Freddie isn't in the manner in which players speak of next level coaches and leaders.. the one's that seek and keep teams at that high level. Can Freddie get there? 3 to 5 years from now does he have the program/culture building prowess to take us to where we want to go? I just don't see it... I just don't see it at all.

The Truth: There's absolutely no way Freddie gets fired especially since John Dorsey assembled a major portion of Freddie's coaching staff and doesn't want to see the likes of Campen, Preifer, and Monken go. There are no candidates from within that could be elevated to HC outside of Steve Wilks for whom the defensive players have lost faith in some. So, the question becomes assuming that Freddie is retained how can we fix this team? -------- My fixes are as follows: 1.) Fire/Replace QB Coach Ryan Lindley with an elite QB trainer/developer that has Offensive Play-calling expertise or upside 2.) Upgrade RT/Replace Chris Hubbard High Quality Starter Impact Via the Draft: 1.) Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia, A-Distant-2.) Josh Jones, RT Houston, 3.) Prince Tega Wanogho, RT-Convert Auburn , 4.) Terrance Steele, RT TTU High Quality Starter Impact Via Free Agency: 1.) Bryan Bulaga and 2.) Jack Conklin 3.) Upgrade RG/Replace Wyatt Teller and Eric Kush High Quality Starter Impact Options Via the Draft: 1.) Tristan Wirfs, RG-Convert Iowa, 2.) Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon, 3.) Nathan Gilliam, RG Wake Forest, 4.) Yasir Durant, OG-Convert Missouri High Quality Starter Impact Via Free Agency: 1.) Brandon Scherff and A-Distant-2.) Graham Glasgow 4.) Upgrade Starting LT and Re-Sign Greg Robinson as a back-up Swing option High Quality Starter Impact Via Draft: 1.) Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia, 2.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama, 3.) Austin Jackson, LT USC, A-Distant-4.) Alex Leatherwood, LT/OG Alabama, A-Distant-5.) Prince Tega Wanogho, LT Auburn High Quality Starter Impact Via Free Agency: 1.) Anthony Castonzo and 2.) No one else 5.) Todd Monken takes over Play-Calling. 6.) Baker, OBJ, Jarvis, and the rest of our offensive playmakers as well as our OC need to rent a big house together, watch film, and mentally/physically rep things until they're in sync with how they see and approach things. 7.) Draft a Reliable Hands Catching-Speed threat WR2 with boundary and slot versatility -- OR-- just draft Michael Pittman, USC in order to stress the defense in ways that creates space and match-up 1-on-1 scenarios. Pittman will fall for idiotic reasons like Michael Thomas did coming out of the draft (this option would shape the offense toward just having a big-time boundary playmaker in Pittman and not necessarily a blistering vertical speed threat per se). 8.) Acquire upgrades at the Hybrid Safety position 9.) Sign Jack Doyle as the hybrid receiver/blocker TE or Acquire a Receiving-Blocking TE 10.) Understand there's likely no high quality help coming in the draft or free agency this year at impact edge rusher so get creative with how to improve that position (i.e., trades, etc.) 11.) Understand there is no high quality impact help coming in the draft or free agency this year at the impact defensive tackle position so get creative with how to upgrade that position (i.e., trades, etc) ---- Mock Off-season: Free Agency: Brandon Scherff, RG -- Becomes highest paid Guard in football Jack Doyle, TE Jimmie Ward, Hybrid-SS Vernon Butler, DT Greg Robinson, LT-Swing OR Halapoulivaati Vaitai, LT-Swing -- Becomes Back-up Swing Lineman Damarious Randall, FS -- Issues this year give the team a team-friendly, 1-year deal Draft: 1.) Jedrick Wills, LT-Convert Alabama // AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa 2.) Michael Pittman, WR USC // Henry Ruggs III, WR Alabama // DeVonta Smith, WR Alabama // Denzel Mims, WR Baylor // Jalen Raegor, WR TCU 3.) Terrance Steele, RT Texas Tech 3.) Yasir Durant, OG/OT Missouri 4.) Trajan Bandy, NCB/CB Miami 6.) BPA 7.) BPA ---

plane wi-fi was trash and couldn't get updates... Besides the usual, what exactly has gone on today with our all-star talent offense seemingly sucking again today (please don't tell me how amazing their defense is)?

Synced internet and updated OP lol.... ------------- @Bucketheadsdad hahaha man... Dr. Strangelove is pure classic I got crazy busy finishing projects before vacation and got tied up with family... I didn't even remember to fully post the OP update I made the day before thanksgfiving... That's one of many amazing parts...

(Nostalgic, Love in the air' music begins to play) It feels like it was only just yesterday … ... the day my heart skipped a beat.. the first time I laid eyes on him and his new team... ---- It was like a dream… ,,, a dream I never wanted to end… ------------- .. All my friends and family told me it wouldn’t last… .. but I just knew in my heart that it was meant to be .. he was the one.. the Steelers QB1 I'd been been waiting for my entire life ... ------------- Steelers-Browns in primetime came... it was a another beautiful day ... just like every other day with him... ... 4 interceptions. 8 seconds left in the game ... in paradise ... Then in a flash ... my whole world came crashing down... I knew it would be the moment... ... the moment I lost the only Steelers QB I'd ever really loved forever… ---- ... heartbroken but in denial .. ... my inner Browns fandom rejoiced and was having a good time ... ---- The next week he was benched and the bitter cold hard reality began to set in ... he was gone ... --------- One of my good friends tried to turn my frown upside down with a text: " No worries; Cheer-up man. I have a good feeling you'll love Duck too." =========== ... I looked up Duck Hodges clips .. but it just wasn't the same ... ... I just couldn't get him out of my mind ... -- --------- " Oh pardon me .. he allegedly said what to Myles Garrett?? " " He said what??@!!" ----------- Then F-it then... Let's go .... ---------- For comfort and reason... to make sense of it all I thought I'd turn to the sanity and rationality that is internet thread comments sections ... ... Clicks and opens multiple threads... ... First one titled, " Myles Garrett Accuses Mason Rudolph of slur... Written By: ESPN " Second one: "A Defense of Mason Rudolph: A Black Guy Lies & Complains Again I'm Definitely Not a Racist" Written By: TheyTookOurJobs ... ----------- ... Done with Rudolph and the Foolishness... my mind was consumed by an image Tayne, Ditch, and I spoke about previously and its implications... (The Conversation Last week) @ditchdigger @NudeTayne You poor fools... you know not what you've stumbled upon nor the powers that you're threatening to expose... Not just the wave, but look closely again... ------------- We're dealing with powers we obviously don't understand.... --------------- What have you done... I suggest you unsee that which you think you've seen...Brown & Orange and FF-minati are watching... (End of the Conversation Last week) ----- Now, I've decided to do some further investigation ... looking up old, famous issues... playing where's Waldo.. looking for this mystical force named Freddie ... ..... the findings I almost dare not speak... ... but the truth must have it's day ... First, I found a famous picture from 1921... .. Just look .... look closely ... you won't believe who's in it... Truly Terrifying... Could this explain why Freddie has such great powers of deception ... why IT is nigh... -----

Baker's a rhythm passer and had over 232 yards off play-action and a near perfect passer rating (155.8) off play-action. A ton of us have been saying it forever... play-action is the key to Baker's in our success..

Heartbreak... and utter madness. . ... the guy has played 30 percent of our snaps and is our best back-up lineman and could easily start for a team ... the Avery/Lawrence moves ... not good.. and I don't want to hear the "he was probably becoming a problem in the locker room" takes as Dorsey gives those guys a 1000 chances...

Oh really huh, " .. yo ... some ish..." . Lol. Sounds to me like you may suffer from that contagious dreadful plague ... that spectrum disorder called "alleged-Mason Rudolph disease." From the looks of it thankfully you aren't high on the spectrum but instead likely on the lower end suffering from flare ups only occasionally (except when drunk with the boys at the Ted Nugent concert ... it flares up real bad there). Projection is the great revealer of truth. Your exact life has now been confirmed. But .. would you at least thank her for making your sandwiches you ungrateful bastard. The holidays are coming up soon; maybe you can surprise her with the gift of getting your own place or at least paying rent. Get from in front of that mindless boob tube playing your Call of Doodie: Eternal Propaganda for longer than a few minutes for once in your life will ya. Don't ever disrespect the Film reels by calling them videos...

This.

Oh sh*t ... my bad ... I forgot, lol. Thanks for the reminder. I'll throw a little trash, non-quality somethin random together during an extended lunch break tomorrow ... 🌊

Most of us have watched and been around football long enough to know what a Next Level Operating offensive unit looks and feels like. There's a particular consistent energy and flow about them. Though not perfect, the efficiency, coordination, and execution is a step into the upper tier of offensive football. Down in and down out it feels and operates like a real force. Whether it be avoiding momentum killing penalties, 1st down gain efficiency, 3rd down conversion rate, the efficiency of the play-call getting in so the QB can analyze the defense with time on the clock, the control and modulation of pace, the timing of particular play-calls given the situations, the high level repeated execution in the run and pass game, and/or the consistent execution of explosive plays, etc there are specific components and elements that best characterize what it means to be a truly next level offense. Here we sit 11 games into the season, and I wonder if we'll take that next step in the remaining games as even when one component of our offense is going well something seems to always prevent us from consistently executing at that high level our talent suggests we can operate at. Ultimately, do we get there this season?

I never said it was a bad game nor did I say we didn't mostly perform well. We did and it was very positive. The essence behind my start to finish comment was more along the lines of the "what would this offense look like with a more complete execution game." I'm not a big stats guy against teams like the dolphins; the game play was clear enough though.. it showed we played consistently well early and struggled and had a lull in execution for decent chunk of the game. My comment speaks more to what this offense has the potential to become albeit we don't seem to be headed to that place this season. There's still time though for us to hit that consistent stride.

it won't hurt us against the bengals, steelers, and cardinals, but our pass rush is butt cheeks without Myles and it might seal the deal against the ravens.