SmittyBacall Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Well the tape really doubts your off-based opinion. Vea is an elite mover for a NT and consistently generates a pass rush against double teams. He doesn't have a lot of sack production, but he gets pressure regularly despite seeing a massive amount of attention his way. It's clear to me you've never seen him play if you're condemning him to being a run stuffer only guy. What do you think his floor and ceiling is sack wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said: What do you think his floor and ceiling is sack wise? I think some overvalue sack numbers. Hurries/hits/pressure all translate into a better defense. He likely will flush Sacks/TFL into the arms of other D players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 12 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: What do you think his floor and ceiling is sack wise? I could care less about his sack numbers. I need him to push the center back into the QB's face so he can't take a traditional 1-3-5-7 step drop. Disrupt the timing and push the QB out of the pocket to the DE"s. I think he compares favorably to Haloti Ngata, who was a big dude that could do more than stop the run. I'm pretty sure the Ravens weren't upset with his sack production at any point in time. The Buccaneers won't regret this pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: I could care less about his sack numbers. I need him to push the center back into the QB's face so he can't take a traditional 1-3-5-7 step drop. Disrupt the timing and push the QB out of the pocket to the DE"s. I think he compares favorably to Haloti Ngata, who was a big dude that could do more than stop the run. I'm pretty sure the Ravens weren't upset with his sack production at any point in time. The Buccaneers won't regret this pick. I just asked a simple question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, SmittyBacall said: I just asked a simple question... And I gave you an answer. Sack numbers are irrelevant, especially for interior DL. The answer to your question about how many sacks? The answer is "I don't care." I care more about the pressures and I don't really have a set number that I'm looking for him to hit. He's an elite run defender and a good pass rusher. I expect him to stay on the field for all three downs, which is extremely rare for a NT of his size. If you are looking for his sack number floor and ceiling, I'd say: Floor: 0 Ceiling: 150 It'll likely be somewhere in between those numbers methinks, but those are his floor/ceiling stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, BleedTheClock said: And I gave you an answer. Sack numbers are irrelevant, especially for interior DL. The answer to your question about how many sacks? The answer is "I don't care." I care more about the pressures and I don't really have a set number that I'm looking for him to hit. He's an elite run defender and a good pass rusher. I expect him to stay on the field for all three downs, which is extremely rare for a NT of his size. If you are looking for his sack number floor and ceiling, I'd say: Floor: 0 Ceiling: 150 It'll likely be somewhere in between those numbers methinks, but those are his floor/ceiling stats. I'm literally asking for your input to know more, and to get a better picture. Why are you so hostile? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 13 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: What do you think his floor and ceiling is sack wise? I think he'll probably have two or three this year. He might be a 4-8 sack type guy if he reaches his potential. He's gonna have to learn to make a quicker first step though. He could get away with it in college because he was stronger than everyone he faced. But he's not gonna get away with it in the NFL. Especially when he gets hit by the center and guard together. There were a few times at Washington where his slow first step lost him a yard of ground before he dug in his heels and either stopped everyone in front of him or started moving forward. His handwork is better than most DTs coming out. He does a pretty good job stopping initial contact getting into his body. But he could definitely improve. The biggest thing (geddit!?) he's gonna do his first year or two is take up space and hopefully push the pocket. Or at the very least hold his ground and give McCoy more one on one opportunities. And that's not including JPP and Curry on the outside, with a (finally) healthy Noah Spence in reserve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: I think he'll probably have two or three this year. He might be a 4-8 sack type guy if he reaches his potential. He's gonna have to learn to make a quicker first step though. He could get away with it in college because he was stronger than everyone he faced. But he's not gonna get away with it in the NFL. Especially when he gets hit by the center and guard together. There were a few times at Washington where his slow first step lost him a yard of ground before he dug in his heels and either stopped everyone in front of him or started moving forward. His handwork is better than most DTs coming out. He does a pretty good job stopping initial contact getting into his body. But he could definitely improve. The biggest thing (geddit!?) he's gonna do his first year or two is take up space and hopefully push the pocket. Or at the very least hold his ground and give McCoy more one on one opportunities. And that's not including JPP and Curry on the outside, with a (finally) healthy Noah Spence in reserve. How many snaps do you see him playing (%)? I would imagine they let him loose on first and second down, and spell him on third for a breather? Playing all three would be absurd at 350lbs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, SmittyBacall said: How many snaps do you see him playing (%)? I would imagine they let him loose on first and second down, and spell him on third for a breather? Playing all three would be absurd at 350lbs... We brought in Beau Allen and Mitch Unrein before we even drafted Vea. They're both true NTs, who offer pretty much nothing in terms of pass rush. We've also got last year's seventh round behemoth Stevie Tu'ikolovatu, who's pretty much the same; but bigger. We've got JPP, Curry, Spence, and Gholston at DE. It sounds like Curry could slide inside in our jet packages. But I'd guess Vea plays some third downs too. We brought in Brentson Buckner from AZ to be our new dline coach. He wants a stable of guys and a steady rotation. I think we'll rotate as much as we can throughout the game. I would think (barring injury) we'll probably keep everyone as close to 50% as we can. McCoy has been pretty close to 85% the last couple years since he's the only defensive lineman we've had who's worth a ****. I expect that to change this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 10 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Sack numbers are irrelevant, especially for interior DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 10 hours ago, bucsfan333 said: I think he'll probably have two or three this year. He might be a 4-8 sack type guy if he reaches his potential. That is an extremely high number for a NT/1-Tech, Some of the most elite guys at that individual position never had more than 4 or so sacks. 4 for Vea would be outstanding along with constant pocket pushing pressures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, MSURacerDT55 said: That is an extremely high number for a NT/1-Tech, Some of the most elite guys at that individual position never had more than 4 or so sacks. 4 for Vea would be outstanding along with constant pocket pushing pressures. But he's not just a NT. I don't know if his size is making people believe that or what. He has the ability to rush the QB. He had 39 pressures last year. So he's not just eating space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: But he's not just a NT. I don't know if his size is making people believe that or what. He has the ability to rush the QB. He had 39 pressures last year. So he's not just eating space. I hear that but the only thing he can be is a 1 tech which is why I said NT/1-Tech, he is not a 3 tech over Gerald McCoy though he may be able to do some above average athletic things for a NT. My perception of the pick is to keep McCoy/K.Alexander as clean as possible occupying the G and C, nothing wrong with that. He will be a force in the run game, and he "can" rush the passer but I'm not sure how many opportunities he will have at 1 tech having a G and C in your face every snap even if its a first or second down pass just because of where he is lined up. He could be the sole reason your defense makes a big jump because of what he does Edited May 18, 2018 by MSURacerDT55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: I hear that but the only thing he can be is a 1 tech which is why I said NT/1-Tech, he is not a 3 tech over Gerald McCoy though he may be able to do some above average athletic things for a NT. My perception of the pick is to keep McCoy/K.Alexander as clean as possible occupying the G and C, nothing wrong with that. He will be a force in the run game, and he "can" rush the passer but I'm not sure how many opportunities he will have at 1 tech having a G and C in your face every snap even if its a first or second down pass just because of where he is lined up. He could be the sole reason your defense makes a big jump because of what he does If he's gonna be the main focus of double teams this year, McCoy's gonna have 15 sacks. Like I said before, the plan is to rotate a lot. So I'm not sure what kind of individual impact Vea is gonna have yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, bucsfan333 said: But he's not just a NT. I don't know if his size is making people believe that or what. He has the ability to rush the QB. He had 39 pressures last year. So he's not just eating space. No he is not 'just' an NT. Some find that hard to grasp simply because of his size. I'm thinking they haven't watched him play yet. I'm having similar issues with my 9ers pick in the 2nd round: Dante Pettis. Just because he is a little over 6' and played inside last year, some label him a slot receiver(including Mayock!). What they don't realize is he spent the previous 2 years outside and had even more production there. My point? Look at the player, not their statistics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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