Broncos decline Shane Ray's 5th year option

[BaldyBronco]

Just now, BaldyBronco said:

He is a guy that ended up right in the middle of being hurt and having a bad 3rd year and keeping Shaq Barrett and landing other depth on the EDGE.  He ended up in no man's land for us.  I thought you were saying he is a bust, which he is not, or that Elway is foolsih for not taking the risk to pay him so much next year, which he is not.

Ray and his agent have huge incentive this year.  HIs agent is probably Shane Rays biggest fan and happy with the risk.  If his client has a big year.  His new contract will make his agent a fortune.  Way more that the 5th year option.

Really.  There is risk everywhere with this kid.

One thing it shows is the Broncos have more pass rushers than they do probably any NFL team. 

I like Shane and hope he and his agent are very happy next year. 

Shanes biggest problem is the Broncos could bury him on the depth chart.  Would really like to see him get traded and not see him in KC next year ( he has a Chief logo tattooed on his back).

Chargers have a pretty good pass rush too @DingoLadd

[BroncosFan2010]

I don't think Ray will ever be an elite EDGE guy but he is nice complementary player and good enough to be a teams second best EDGE.

He has a great first step and pretty solid motor, when rushing the passer. Passable in the run game.

Some team is going to be happy to pay him next season. Sadly, it wont be Denver.

[DingoLadd]

15 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

He is a guy that ended up right in the middle of being hurt and having a bad 3rd year and keeping Shaq Barrett and landing other depth on the EDGE.  He ended up in no man's land for us.  I thought you were saying he is a bust, which he is not, or that Elway is foolsih for not taking the risk to pay him so much next year, which he is not.

Ray and his agent have huge incentive this year.  HIs agent is probably Shane Rays biggest fan and happy with the risk.  If his client has a big year.  His new contract will make his agent a fortune.  Way more that the 5th year option.

Really.  There is risk everywhere with this kid.

One thing it shows is the Broncos have more pass rushers than they do probably any NFL team. 

I like Shane and hope he and his agent are very happy next year. 

Shanes biggest problem is the Broncos could bury him on the depth chart.  Would really like to see him get traded and not see him in KC next year ( he has a Chief logo tattooed on his back).

If I could like this post I would, hopefully Ray does very well this year and the broncos are able to get a good comp pick and or somehow end up trading up for a good haul. 

Chargers have a better pass rush but the broncos have more depth IMO, and obviously Von is the best pass rusher on both teams but Bosa's getting close.

[RuskieTitan]

Elway gets far too much credit for having brought in Manning and squeezing out one super bowl victory. For his overall moves in free agency, drafts, and contracts, he is very overrated. Basically the Andrew Luck of GMs, just with one year of payoff. Otherwise he'd be below average. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

I agree with @Broncofan in that Denver should have activated his option and then tried to trade him (or if they were REALLY gunshy, they would have traded him yesterday or today and let some other team make the call whether to activate the option).

An interesting question: if the Broncos were to trade him today (or tomorrow at the latest), could his new team turn around and then activate the option, or is it now permanently declined?

 

48 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

He would renegotiate on being traded.  No one will want to, since he is a big risk.  That said.  If he has a big year, kid will get paid.  His challenge is he is gonna get lost on the depth chart as our pass rushers are DEEP.

Until the paperwork is filed - a trade and decision on the option is available.  And to be clear - Ray has NO say in this.  He doesn’t get to have a say.   Only when he hits UDFA status, or if someone wants to talk extension (but no need to, if the option is exercised).

41 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

There's a fair chance that the Broncos shopped Ray during all of the draft discussions - getting a feel for his worth around the league

Yeah that’s likely at least after Day 1 once Chubb was drafted.  If not Elway should be on the phone now lol.   The deadline is sometime tomorrow.  Then again this probably became worth serious consideration only after the draft (or Day 1).  Teams may have been in draft mode until now.  

If the paperwork hasn’t been filed no doubt there may still be some teams talking.   Given we aren’t legit contenders I know the stock answer will be that we shouldn’t give him away.   Which is true but we have to be careful in assuming what the likely return would be if he hits FA.   Comp picks are a year later and only if they get big $ AND play to a high level the next year (Osweiler got the big payday but getting benched killed his comp pick as one good example).  

[BaldyBronco]

Just now, DingoLadd said:

If I could like this post I would, hopefully Ray does very well this year and the broncos are able to get a good comp pick and or somehow end up trading up for a good haul. 

Chargers have a better pass rush but the broncos have more depth IMO, and obviously Von is the best pass rusher on both teams but Bosa's getting close.

Chubb changes the conversation for me.  His tape is sick. I can't believe we got him.  Cleveland is my favorite team ever.  I love (HATE) Bosa man, and he is a stud.  If we can score some points and get ahead in some games and are positive in the TO battle (lots of if's), Von may set the sack record this year as Chubb/Ray/Barrett and Jeff Holland causing match up problems with our front 3 and Josey Jewell and Su'a Cravens helping with the TE.  It has to scare you... the key to our front 7 though is Clinton McDonald.  If he plays well, we are gonna be very tough to handle.  We could argue for days on this one.  Both teams have the EDGE.  No pun intended...

All this said.  I am picking the Chargers to with th West. #2 Raiders, #3 Chiefs and the Broncos finishing 6-10 in last.   

[BaldyBronco]

2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

Until the paperwork is filed - a trade and decision on the option is available.  And to be clear - Ray has NO say in this.  He doesn’t get to have a say.   Only when he hits UDFA status.  

Yeah that’s likely at least after Day 1 once Chubb was drafted.  If not Elway should be on the phone now lol.   The deadline is sometime tomorrow.  Then again this probably became worth serious consideration only after the draft (or Day 1).  Teams may have been in draft mode until now.  

Given we aren’t legit contenders I know the stock answer will be that we shouldn’t give him away.   Which is true but we have to be careful in assuming what the likely return would be if he hits FA.   Comp picks are a year later and only if they get big $ AND play to a high level the next year (Osweiler got the big payday but getting benched killed his comp pick as one good example).  

Ray is expendable and did I see any talk on his trade value.  Maybe a 5th or 6th?

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

Ray is expendable and did I see any talk on his trade value.  Maybe a 5th or 6th?

Depends on what team is asking.   A 4th and it's definitely worth considering, because it's worth more than an end of 3rd in 2020, when you factor in the time you have to wait to get a return.

Now, if the paperwork is filed, then no scenario is in play.   If it's still just a report by the beat reporters & Rappaport/etc., then it depends on how much DEN values having Ray in the fold for 2018.   And THAT is a bigger variable - while many if not all of us realistically see 2018 as a retool year, Elway isn't wired to think that way.   Elway may not see a 5th/6th or even a 4th as worth losing Ray's contributions in 2018.  If you aren't making the playoffs, that's a dumb way of looking at it, but man, DEN fans know that giving up on a year before the season's started, well, it's not in Elway's vocabulary.  That's why a team probably has to spend a 3rd/4th to get Elway's interest.    And that is also probably why there has been no trade, either, if Elway's been on the phone making inquiries.

If I was Elway, I'd ask for a conditional 4th/5th, depending on playing time & games.   But knowing Elway, he probably wants more to allow Ray to leave and not help us win games in 2018.     Then again, if I was Elway, I wouldn't be here posting here with all of you lol. 

[DingoLadd]

23 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said:

Elway gets far too much credit for having brought in Manning and squeezing out one super bowl victory. For his overall moves in free agency, drafts, and contracts, he is very overrated. Basically the Andrew Luck of GMs, just with one year of payoff. Otherwise he'd be below average. 

This, so much this but still Elway deserves credit for building a roster around Manning and an elite defense.

[Woz]

Just now, Broncofan said:

Depends on what team is asking.   A 4th and it's definitely worth considering, because it's worth more than an end of 3rd in 2020, when you factor in the time you have to wait to get a return.

Keep in mind that even a 5th or 6th in 2019 may be worth more since it is a guaranteed pick. If they sign someone else for an equivalent contract that Ray got on his new team in March 2019, the Broncos get nothing for Ray.

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, Woz said:

Keep in mind that even a 5th or 6th in 2019 may be worth more since it is a guaranteed pick. If they sign someone else for an equivalent contract that Ray got on his new team in March 2019, the Broncos get nothing for Ray.

Well keep in mind we're in cap hell (2019 29th out of 32 team atm), so the likelihood we sign anyone to a high-salary contract is small.   The bigger risk is that Ray doesn't get enough $ in a contract to get any better than a 2020 5th/6th.    Still, I totally hear you...but then the 2nd part of the equation comes in - Elway's win-now philosophy.   The pick has to be enough of a needle-mover to justify giving up Ray's 16 cheap games in 2018.   

It's a dumb argument if you are missing the playoffs regardless - but Elway's not wired to give up on 2018 right now.   Elway's not going to go all-in for 2018, but he's not going to willingly make his team's 2018 chances worse, unless the 2019+ return is noteworthy, and not just value-added.    So the pick has to be a difference-maker.   That's the rub.  It's probably a big reason why there's no deal already done.  And why no deal gets done if that's the outcome we see. 

If we were a good team, I'd be totally behind the above position Elway's likely taking.   We're not, so I get your take on this 100 percent, but mindset matters - and I suspect Elway's is 180 degrees from your view because of that win-now mindset.  It takes 2 to tango here, and Elway's likely not going to sell Ray at what he perceives as less than full value, because in his mind, DEN still has a shot to contend (they don't, but we're talking how Elway's wired, not reality).

[BaldyBronco]

18 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Depends on what team is asking.   A 4th and it's definitely worth considering, because it's worth more than an end of 3rd in 2020, when you factor in the time you have to wait to get a return.

Now, if the paperwork is filed, then no scenario is in play.   If it's still just a report by the beat reporters & Rappaport/etc., then it depends on how much DEN values having Ray in the fold for 2018.   And THAT is a bigger variable - while many if not all of us realistically see 2018 as a retool year, Elway isn't wired to think that way.   Elway may not see a 5th/6th or even a 4th as worth losing Ray's contributions in 2018.  If you aren't making the playoffs, that's a dumb way of looking at it, but man, DEN fans know that giving up on a year before the season's started, well, it's not in Elway's vocabulary.  That's why a team probably has to spend a 3rd/4th to get Elway's interest.    And that is also probably why there has been no trade, either, if Elway's been on the phone making inquiries.

If I was Elway, I'd ask for a conditional 4th/5th, depending on playing time & games.   But knowing Elway, he probably wants more to allow Ray to leave and not help us win games in 2018.     Then again, if I was Elway, I wouldn't be here posting here with all of you lol. 

He will be a Chief next year if we do not control it.  Always good to send guys to other regions/divisions.

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, BaldyBronco said:

He will be a Chief next year if we do not control it.  Always good to send guys to other regions/divisions.

KC is a team that's coming out of cap hell, but they're still around 20th-22nd in effective cap space, with Dee Ford & Mitch Morse needing extensions.   Don't see them as big players yet, and if Ray isn't great, then it's not an impact move anyways - it's if he's great, we lost a chance to get much better value than 2020 comp picks.  BTW, I have to revise what I said, we're still in terrible shape cap-wise, but now 5 teams are worse lol (so progress!  we're #27).

There are a lot of things that terrified me this past week - Elway drafting Josh Allen was my 2nd biggest fear.     Elway trading up for Josh Allen was my 1st.   Well, that's not true - clowns still are #1.    Ray leaving to KC doesn't really move the needle.      

[Broncofan]

BTW, here's the official NFL list right now as per Garofolo - Dante Fowler & Shane Ray aren't yet on the list - but no doubt, they will be by tomorrow (Fowler JAX just wants an extension that isn't as crazy as a top 10 EDGE/DE gets).   In Ray's case, the omission could mean Elway's making (or taking) last-minute phone calls.  We'll see by tomorrow.

 

 

[SBLIII]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

BTW, here's the official NFL list right now as per Garofolo - Dante Fowler & Shane Ray aren't yet on the list - but no doubt, they will be by tomorrow (Fowler JAX just wants an extension that isn't as crazy as a top 10 EDGE/DE gets).   In Ray's case, the omission could mean Elway's making (or taking) last-minute phone calls.  We'll see by tomorrow.

 

 

Is the deadline tomorrow? Dante Fowler could command decent money in FA.