2019 Draft Talk

[JDBrocks]

36 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I would look at it like this:

LT: Reiff/Dillard
LG: Jones/Collins/Isidora
C: Elflein
RG: Kline/Risner
RT: O'Neill/Hill

There would be some flexibility in which side some of those players ended up at but if and only if Reiff was passed on the depth chart at tackle would I let him try to make it at guard. In that event, I would start him at the bottom of the guard depth chart.  If he worked his way up to the top I would keep him there. If he didn't, I wouldn't keep him on his current contract to be a backup.

There would still be a few significant weaknesses on that line (LG, C, RG) so I would hope they would consider also using a third round pick for another player to compete there.  Would feel a lot better about the competition in there if there were two rookies to compete with the other players for the three spots.

There is a fair chance Isidora doesn't make the team, but one way that he may prove worth keeping around is if he continues to show position flexibility by working more at center. He didn't make it there last year when they tried him out there, but he didn't exactly have much time to work at it either.

 

I don't think there is any way in the world they can let 1st and 2nd round draft picks sit on the bench this year. I don't think they will go OL back to back - I was playing with the hypothetical proposed earlier. With the dire need to improve the position group, a high draft pick has to be a plug and play starter IMO.

[JDBrocks]

EDIT: Derp....

[Heimdallr]

Personally I wouldn't move Waynes for less than mid-1st value. He was a 1st round pick and has lived up to that level of play. He is young, just hitting his prime years, has elite speed, and tackles well. I see absolutely no reason to give that up for less than high-1st round value. The unknown of a draft pick is a risky return for a proven player at a premiere position.

[vikingsrule]

1 minute ago, Heimdallr said:

Personally I wouldn't move Waynes for less than mid-1st value. He was a 1st round pick and has lived up to that level of play. He is young, just hitting his prime years, has elite speed, and tackles well. I see absolutely no reason to give that up for less than high-1st round value. The unknown of a draft pick is a risky return for a proven player at a premiere position.

I'd take any pick in round one, but I think you'd have to see the board first. If you grab Dillard at 18 and Bradbury/Lindstrom are still there in the late 20s, I make the trade to get back in the first. Trading Waynes makes it easier to extend Alexander now, plus there will be extra cash to bring in a veteran WR, which this team certainly needs.

[Heimdallr]

Just now, vikingsrule said:

I'd take any pick in round one, but I think you'd have to see the board first. If you grab Dillard at 18 and Bradbury/Lindstrom are still there in the late 20s, I make the trade to get back in the first. Trading Waynes makes it easier to extend Alexander now, plus there will be extra cash to bring in a veteran WR, which this team certainly needs.

Yeah, getting one of the elite OL is the only reason I'd trade him. It only makes sense if you think the player you are getting has Pro Bowl caliber potential. 

[VikeManDan]

23 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I personally think that's a terrible idea.  I'm not making O'Neill a backup tackle.  Of course I'm a little biased, considering I don't see Williams as a fit for the Vikings at all, but should they draft him along with Risner, I'm sticking Williams at LG, and having Risner back up O'Neill at RT for a year while potentially considering preparing O'Neill to move over to LT in 2020.  

Agree with this, I think Risner makes sense IF you think O'Neill can transition to the left side.

I'm guessing you're having Risner be the back-up RT as to not develop any bad technique/habits at RG before transitioning? 

Based on your projection the 2020 line would look like this:

O'Neill-Williams-Elf-Kline?-Risner

[ArcticNorseman]

I would hope they don't move Waynes.  Just given how he's grown is impressive, but right now, he'd be the #1 CB in this draft board.  So, if a team were to offer a pick in the 10-20 overall range, it'd be hard to pass-up, but the Vikes could get their O-linemen . . . in that scenario and assuming Dillard's on the board, I'd grab him for the LT spot and Lindstrom, a pure RG, for the 2nd pick.  

Then again, maybe ya use #18 on Greedy Williams to replace Waynes at 1/10th the price?

[swede700]

8 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

Personally I wouldn't move Waynes for less than mid-1st value. He was a 1st round pick and has lived up to that level of play. He is young, just hitting his prime years, has elite speed, and tackles well. I see absolutely no reason to give that up for less than high-1st round value. The unknown of a draft pick is a risky return for a proven player at a premiere position.

I know that you may not want to move him for less than that, but the reality is that draft picks (and the cheap cost that comes with them) are a valued commodity, even moreso than the player that they would be traded for.  Therefore, any existing player is going to get traded for a lesser pick than what their true value should be...hence all the discussion surrounding Josh Rosen being traded for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.  Since he's only been in the league a year and is still so young, he should still be worth a 1st, but he's not.  The same is true for Waynes.  His trade value is probably no more than a 2nd round pick because of the cost associated with him and the valued commodity that is the draft pick.    

[Uncle Buck]

I just saw this on Facebook and thought it was pretty funny (and hopefully, true). 

[VikeManDan]

@Uncle Buck yes, it is true. He said it during his presser yesterday.

[vikingsrule]

41 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

Yeah, getting one of the elite OL is the only reason I'd trade him. It only makes sense if you think the player you are getting has Pro Bowl caliber potential. 

I'd take a potential solid/good starter along the OL. I know Waynes is a solid starter but is he even a pro bowl caliber player? I know pro bowl accolades are no where near as impactful as they used to be. I'm not convinced that Waynes has top 10 CB potential, said another way. He's good certainly, reasonably top 20-25.

[JDBrocks]

51 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

Personally I wouldn't move Waynes for less than mid-1st value. He was a 1st round pick and has lived up to that level of play. He is young, just hitting his prime years, has elite speed, and tackles well. I see absolutely no reason to give that up for less than high-1st round value. The unknown of a draft pick is a risky return for a proven player at a premiere position.

You have to consider that the team trading for Waynes also has to pay him at 2nd contract value for living up to his draft status, or else risk trading away the proposed 1st round pick for a 1 year player. There's no one that will give that up.

[vikingsrule]

6 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

You have to consider that the team trading for Waynes also has to pay him at 2nd contract value for living up to his draft status, or else risk trading away the proposed 1st round pick for a 1 year player. There's no one that will give that up.

Frank Clark and Dee Ford were both traded this offseason and are in similar positions. Clark is obviously a tier above Waynes and Ford but they both got compensation in the late first to early second range and new contracts. 

I know these two are edge rushers so I'm not sure what the market is for a CB.

[SemperFeist]

Sorry, but a 2nd round pick is about the best you’d do for Waynes. IMO

Teams know that if you’re shopping him, you’re not planning on bringing him back long term. They might just wait until next year to sign him, and not give anything up. 

On the flip side, letting Waynes leave is, at best, going to get the Vikings a late 3rd round comp pick in 2021. 

If you can do better than a late 3rd, you’re probably getting good value. 

[VikeManDan]

31 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

If you can do better than a late 3rd, you’re probably getting good value. 

This is the kicker. If you can get a late 2nd/non-comp 3rd for him in 2019 I think you have to take it. That pick could be used to move around in the draft.