Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Norm]

17 minutes ago, Leader said:

No, no. I dont hate discussing things. Not at all - and the number of posts I make would indicate that - but its based on those discussions and relevant info sourced from elsewhere that I reach a conclusion. I come to a decision point. Its not a hardheaded - dont bother with me with your opinions cause I know I'm right moment - but I dont rehash the same stuff over and over again - then some days later - go over it all again.

I think Nelson was slowing down. I think the team decided it was time to move on. I dont think our talent at WR cant "replace" (dare I use the term with an iconic player) a diminished / slowing down Nelson. Is he done? No. I'm sure he'll be able to work some magic from the slot when with OAK. I dont know who their intended #2 is - but if they snagged Nelson to be that guy, then I think they made a mistake - but thats there decision. Couldnt care less at this juncture.

We'll survive.

 

I don't like arguing with you. We have similar ideology. I actually agree with all of what you said logically.  Just not my exact view, that's all. No harm done, no malice

[packfanfb]

40 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

IF you're disagreeing with that, you're disagreeing with the math of it, which is insane.  Over the last four seasons in which Rodgers has touched the ball, he's thrown the ball on average 563.5 times.  Let's use 565 for simplicity's sake.  Over the last two years, Davante Adams has averaged ~120 targets, Randall Cobb has averaged ~90 targets, and Jimmy Graham has averaged ~95 targets.  Assuming those numbers stay static, that's another 260 attempts to go around.  That goes between our 3rd WR, all of our backs, and any of our backups.  Jordy Nelson prior to last year was averaging ~150 attempts.  Do you truly believe that the Packers are going to throw only 20% of their passing attempts at their backups and running backs?  You're making a completely different argument.  I'm making the argument that there's only a finite amount of touches left once you include your top 3 (Adams, Cobb, and Graham).  If you believe that Jordy Nelson has the same kind of impact with less touches, you're off your rocker. 

So what are we going to do with the extra 13 million? Roll it all over? That's dumb. Use it on lesser players? That's dumb. We have been over-investing in the WR position for years, why stop now, especially when we are only talking about one season? Cobb's contract is gone next year anyways. If we have the money, load up and go win a damn championship. No one can reasonably argue that we are not a better team without Dez Bryant versus with him. Mentioning him and Geronimo Allison in the same sentence is insulting.  

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Personally I think people are way underestimating Dez Bryant. Guy was a top 5 WR with Romo just a few years ago and has played the last few years with Dak Prescott who doesn't impress me at all. Take away his All-Pro OL and All-Pro RB, and what is he, an average passer? 

Moreover, if Bryant is suddenly a nobody because of his last few seasons (which frankly are still pretty solid statistically), why are the same people so fired up about Wilkerson? He's literally the exact same story -- and even more so, Wilkerson has a history of basically quitting on the field. Me personally, I am a big believer in the "change of scenery can resurrect or revitalize a career" thing which is why I was all good with the Wilk signing and the same reasons I'm 100% behind signing Dez. 

We have Wilks coach. Simple as that man. Don't pretend you don't see why it's different. Be honest. Honesty is awesome.

Dez is gonna sign here. I'm convinced. It'll happen. We're just letting him fall into the idea.

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

So what are we going to do with the extra 13 million? Roll it all over? That's dumb. Use it on lesser players? That's dumb. We have been over-investing in the WR position for years, why stop now, especially when we are only talking about one season? Cobb's contract is gone next year anyways. If we have the money, load up and go win a damn championship. No one can reasonably argue that we are not a better team without Dez Bryant versus with him. Mentioning him and Geronimo Allison in the same sentence is insulting.  

Is it sad I don't think Gute is going this is our year. Everyone knew he was different. Don't think he is. He's long term. Best shot over 3 over going for one

And I love that myself

Agree you can't argue adding him is worse, without worst case crap. But IDK if you think we now like you all expected 

[packfanfb]

Just now, NormSizedMidget said:

We have Wilks coach. Simple as that man. Don't pretend you don't see why it's different. Be honest. Honesty is awesome.

Doesn't mean much. Either you buy into this "wired right" bs or it's just that, bs. There is no difference between the players themselves other than the fact that Dez is actually the better teammate and harder worker. Wilkerson may have Pettine, but you know who Dez Bryant would have, Aaron Rodgers. 

[packfanfb]

Just now, NormSizedMidget said:

Is it sad I don't think Gute is going this is our year. Everyone knew he was different. Don't think he is. He's long term. Best shot over 3 over going for one

And I love that myself

At some point when your QB is in his mid-30s that has to change. Rodgers isn't built to play until his 42 like Brady. When you do stop putting it off "one more year." We aren't that far away, just a few players and some luck with health. 

[Joe]

Just now, packfanfb said:

So what are we going to do with the extra 13 million? Roll it all over? That's dumb. Use it on lesser players? That's dumb. We have been over-investing in the WR position for years, why stop now, especially when we are only talking about one season? Cobb's contract is gone next year anyways. If we have the money, load up and go win a damn championship. No one can reasonably argue that we are not a better team without Dez Bryant versus with him. Mentioning him and Geronimo Allison in the same sentence is insulting.  

I think that's a bit extreme. The argument shouldn't be how good are we with him vs. without him; it should be whether or not he's worth the risk of losing a younger, rookie WR over the long-term. We know he'll be pricey, but can he A. be OK with being a WR2 and as a result B. accepting fewer targets. We discussed earlier in this thread how many touches can logically go around. I wouldn't lose it if we signed him, I just don't see it as a be-all-end-all decision.

[Leader]

5 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Personally I think people are way underestimating Dez Bryant. Guy was a top 5 WR with Romo just a few years ago and has played the last few years with Dak Prescott who doesn't impress me at all. Take away his All-Pro OL and All-Pro RB, and what is he, an average passer? 

Moreover, if Bryant is suddenly a nobody because of his last few seasons (which frankly are still pretty solid statistically), why are the same people so fired up about Wilkerson? He's literally the exact same story -- and even more so, Wilkerson has a history of basically quitting on the field. Me personally, I am a big believer in the "change of scenery can resurrect or revitalize a career" thing which is why I was all good with the Wilk signing and the same reasons I'm 100% behind signing Dez. 

I dont think I'm underestimating him. My take is he's got worse hands than Adams, Cobb (and yes.......) Allison. Cant speak for Graham. - but AR can rifle a pass to those guys which stops dead in their hands. I dont consider Dez that good. 

Route running? Who knows - but supposedly its never been a point of emphasis for him (or apparently.....) his coaches.

Really, the only thing that I've never liked about Dez are the sideline temper tantrums. Those I've always thought more a distraction and counter productive to the teams goals.

If the GBPs were to add him - I''d consider him a bonus - except it challenges my long term hopes for the rookies - who I've not seen do anything on an NFL field. So, its more than up in the air.

[Norm]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

Doesn't mean much. Either you buy into this "wired right" bs or it's just that, bs. There is no difference between the players themselves other than the fact that Dez is actually the better teammate and harder worker. Wilkerson may have Pettine, but you know who Dez Bryant would have, Aaron Rodgers. 

Assumed that he told them I'll make him happy, I know how to coach him.  I can get the best from him.

It's different and you know it

I have friends that are insane drunks I can control. I can't control every insane drunk

 

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

At some point when your QB is in his mid-30s that has to change. Rodgers isn't built to play until his 42 like Brady. When you do stop putting it off "one more year." We aren't that far away, just a few players and some luck with health. 

I don't think they view it like that tbh. Right or wrong.

Fundamentally I think win now doesn't work anyways. Though I understand the logic. I get you because you truly just want to win. We all do. I'm just not sure it's as simple as signing everyone and you win. Because when you don't, well... It can hurt

[Leader]

10 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

I don't like arguing with you. We have similar ideology. I actually agree with all of what you said logically.  Just not my exact view, that's all. No harm done, no malice

Never any harm or malice. Cross those off the list. They dont exist for me.

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, Leader said:

I dont think I'm underestimating him. My take is he's got worse hands than Adams, Cobb (and yes.......) Allison. Cant speak for Graham. - but AR can rifle a pass to those guys which stops dead in their hands. I dont consider Dez that good. 

Route running? Who knows - but supposedly its never been a point of emphasis for him (or apparently.....) his coaches.

Really, the only thing that I've never liked about Dez are the sideline temper tantrums. Those I've always thought more a distraction and counter productive to the teams goals.

If the GBPs were to add him - I''d consider him a bonus - except it challenges my long term hopes for the rookies - who I've not seen do anything on an NFL field. So, its more than up in the air.

Dez doesn't have bad hands. Doesn't mean he's the best but those are some strong paws. He can find it too. That's the last thing I would use against him

[Norm]

Just now, Leader said:

Never any harm or malice. Cross those off the list. They dont exist for me.

Wanna hug

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

I think that's a bit extreme. The argument shouldn't be how good are we with him vs. without him; it should be whether or not he's worth the risk of losing a younger, rookie WR over the long-term. We know he'll be pricey, but can he A. be OK with being a WR2 and as a result B. accepting fewer targets. We discussed earlier in this thread how many touches can logically go around. I wouldn't lose it if we signed him, I just don't see it as a be-all-end-all decision.

In case you're wondering, I'm perfectly fine having Dez Bryant for 2018 and having to cut a 6th or 7th round rookie who likely has a 5% chance to ever do anything in the NFL. Sometimes you have to gamble to win. That's my 2 cents on that. 

Personally, I'd keep 6 WRs and go Adams, Dez, Cobb, Moore, ESB, 6th man (probably Davis b/c ST but battle with MVS). Clark is a dud IMO and Allison is the odd man out because he offers nothing on ST and has a low ceiling at WR. He'll probably be available midway through the season if Adams or Dez gets hurt. Conversely, if ESB looks like **** in TC you could keep Allison over him. Last year we cut Yancey and Dupre after everyone was raving about them and ESB/MVS right now are no different, they just have better Youtube highlight reels and look better in shorts. 

[Leader]

Just now, NormSizedMidget said:

Wanna hug

Good. Give your dog one. Dogs are people too