Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Packerraymond]

All the tweets for rookie camp, OTAs, mini camps and TC for discussion can go in here.

Please bring September to us quickly.

[packfanfb]

Heard we made it through practice without an injury today. 

[Shanedorf]

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/05/04/packers-jaire-alexander-rookie-tall-receivers/582129002/

“The drills within the period,” McCarthy said, “are really geared to make sure we get a movement evaluation on every player. So it’s more about evaluation, but it is football. So it’s an opportunity for everybody to see how we operate in the classroom, expectations there. How we operate on the practice field, carry the expectations there. But this is an evaluation period these next 48 hours, and we will get that out of the practice video.”

 

tons of pics in the link, including Mr BigPipes

[Packerraymond]

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

[SpeightTheVillain]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

As he said "its an evaluation period," they may just want to see him do it live. 

I'll be right up there with you complaining if we see this on Sunday's but its a rookie minicamp

[packfanfb]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

Is there a difference between stubborn and stupid when the results are the same? It'll be interesting to see if Randall follows the same path. Have a feeling you're not going to hear his name at all this year or he's going to the Pro Bowl at FS. 

[Cakeshoppe]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

I think Shanedorf's quote above explains this just fine. Even if you are going to play to your guys' strengths, you still want to know about your weaknesses. If these exercises are mostly about evaluation, I suspect a lot of guys are going to see their weaknesses tested this week.

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, Cakeshoppe said:

I think Shanedorf's quote above explains this just fine. Even if you are going to play to your guys' strengths, you still want to know about your weaknesses. If these exercises are mostly about evaluation, I suspect a lot of guys are going to see their weaknesses tested this week.

That's fine but his point was more that in the past, despite a player's glaring shortcomings or "weaknesses" our staff still put them in situations that exposed those weaknesses, not used their strengths. Hopefully Pettine gets free reign to use his players as he sees fit and then uses them correctly. 

[Packerraymond]

9 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

As he said "its an evaluation period," they may just want to see him do it live. 

I'll be right up there with you complaining if we see this on Sunday's but its a rookie minicamp

I get that and I stated that in there. I just want to have the staff see that it's a weakness and move on. It's not a killer one by any means. Tom Brady was never a mobile QB, and they don't bootleg him much at all. Jackson has some rare instinctual gifts, and a knack for the ball I've only seen in a few prospects, but you're dealing with a former WR who brings a lack physicality to the position. A lot like we saw with Shields, guys not King or Jaire, he doesn't want to hit you or jam you, he wants to take the ball away. A guy like Oren Burks isn't going to be someone you want to meet blockers in the hole. I love this draft class, but we better use them correctly. I trust that they've learned from their mistakes because I've always been one of Mac's biggest fans.

[HyponGrey]

22 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I'm ok with it for now, because with Tramon and House here, that's probably what's gonna happen.

[Gopackgonerd]

46 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

 

You also got Cohen saying he's aggressive with his hands here.

You have to think if he didn't play that much press at all in college, with a good coach like Whitt he will help him with that. 

[Cakeshoppe]

tweet roundup:

 

[Shanedorf]

23 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

According to one of the local hosts on Milwaukee sports talk radio who was at camp today EQ embarrassed Jackson on the first snap of 7 on 7 when they asked Jackson to get up at the line and press.

I really hope this isn't the attitude the 2018 Packers are going to take toward their players or we didn't learn a damn thing from the regime change.

You ranked Jackson highly and you know who he is, he's not a press corner. He's a bail corner. While that might not be the way you want your defense to play, too bad, then you shouldn't have drafted him. He led the NCAA in passes defended, INTs and didn't allow a single catch over 30 yards all season, so you know he's damn good and was successful. His instincts are rare and he's got some elite short area quickness too. I get wanted to teach him all the techniques, but if you treat Jackson like he's Kevin King, he will fail, and vice versa if you treated King like Jackson. Jackson will have to play bail and keep his eyes on the QB if you want him to play this year, otherwise put him down by Pipkins and Hawkins on the DC, he's not playing.

I understand this is an overreaction to a blurb about day 1 of camp but IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

You isolate what your players are good at and go out there and let them play to their strengths. If we move from Dom to Pettine and keep the same attitude of, "this is the scheme, learn it, play it and do it a certain way" be prepared for another mediocre defense. 

Wooooooo ! This is awesome. New stand-up comedy routine ?

The Packers want to put their movement skills on video tape so they have something to teach from and so the players can see how far they've advanced since the first day they arrived in May. Its actually for their benefit and soon enough they'll look back at this and marvel at their progress. Pettine is starting from ground zero and in the video interview I linked yesterday, he talks about it in great detail. He says scheme don't matter if you can't perform the fundamentals.

It also helps Pettine:  he uses the film to teach both the players and the position coaches exactly how he wants things done. He only has 1 coach on the D who coached this system before, so they are all learning together.

[Packerraymond]

40 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Wooooooo ! This is awesome. New stand-up comedy routine ?

The Packers want to put their movement skills on video tape so they have something to teach from and so the players can see how far they've advanced since the first day they arrived in May. Its actually for their benefit and soon enough they'll look back at this and marvel at their progress. Pettine is starting from ground zero and in the video interview I linked yesterday, he talks about it in great detail. He says scheme don't matter if you can't perform the fundamentals.

It also helps Pettine:  he uses the film to teach both the players and the position coaches exactly how he wants things done. He only has 1 coach on the D who coached this system before, so they are all learning together.

Did you read any of what I said? It's pretty clear you didn't by your ridiculous first statement.

I'm obviously using one play as an example as a flaw of the past regime and how I'm hoping we don't repeat it with this new group. Pretty sure I've been here long enough that you could get a feel that I'm knowledgeable enough to not use a single play as a determinant to how our new staff will coach.

[TheOnlyThing]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

IMO this was the greatest failure of the Ted/Mike/Dom era. Despite people believing all of them sucked at their jobs, I think that's simply false, they just had a stubbornness to them. We drafted good football players and then forced those plays to play under a set scheme. I will always be a believer in tailoring your scheme to your players, but the past few years in GB we've done the opposite. That's why your Datone Jones', Thornton's and Worthy's have been instant flops here and why Hayward and Hyde can go he All Pro elsewhere.

So much to unpack here.

Datone Jones, Jerrel Worthy, and Khyri Thornton are "good football players"? I'd say most observers currently view them as mediocre talents, at best. (And Datone Jones an instant flop? He was given 4 long years and moved to a completely different position in order to prove the previous GM "drafted a good football player" with his first round pick.)

The truth is Jones, Worthy, and Thornton (1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks, respectively), were all way over drafted given their ensuing "production" in Green Bay and elsewhere.

As for Hyde, he was indeed a good draft pick, a 5th round steal in fact. However, it was apparent his rookie season back in 2013 that his lack of speed coupled with his + ball skills made him a much better Safety candidate than CB, yet the brain trust decided that MD Jennings and Jerron McMillian were better options that year and Hyde was never really given an opportunity to play the position at which he prospered in Buffalo last season. That is not a scheme failure so much as it is a misdiagnosis of talent.

Now regarding Hayward I agree with you. Good football player and good draft pick that Dom had no clue how to properly use as his career progressed.

The reality is that Dom did suck at his job, at least in 2016 and 2017. It is also true that there were a lot of sucky defensive draft picks the past several years.

Plenty of blame to go around for all the defensive failures the past 7 seasons but surely the 2 individuals who must be held most responsible for those failures are the former DC and the former GM.

While some fans may still be gun shy given what transpired on the defensive side of the ball in Green Bay, I have faith that the Gut/Pettine combination will quickly, very quickly, improve the D and hopefully put all of the negativity we experienced on D under the previous GM/DC in the rear view mirror.