Who is your "Surprise" cut and why?

[MacReady]

Just now, Pad Level said:

They said the same of Troy Williamson. ?

Difference is Troy Williamson was a 7th overall pick and Trevor Davis was a fifth round pick. 

Vikings/Lions/Bears proving why you don't take receivers in round one over and over and over again. 

[vegas492]

I think Davis muffed one last year, too.  Once is a fluke, two is a trend.  Three is a problem.

Cobb can return kicks.  

I think that the muff opened the door for McCaffrey to scoot back there and see what he can do.  And he caught it and got upfield quickly.

McCaffrey is making himself a really tough cut.  And remember that kid has some serious speed too!

[Pad Level]

42 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Difference is Troy Williamson was a 7th overall pick and Trevor Davis was a fifth round pick. 

Vikings/Lions/Bears proving why you don't take receivers in round one over and over and over again. 

Yep. makes Davis that much easier to cut. 

[jleisher]

HorizontoZenith, thanks for the reply.  I know sometimes, some get carried away with things.  I just love talking Packer football.

[MacReady]

Just now, Pad Level said:

Yep. makes Davis that much easier to cut. 

You neglect a few things:

1. Longest pass interference penalty (66 yards) of the last 30 years in the NFL, and Davis was responsible for drawing it on a play he got open on.
2. The best threat to return a punt we've had since long before Randall Cobb.
3. The fastest receiver we've had since God knows when.
4. The fact that he had exactly 7 less yards and the exact number of receptions and touchdowns as Donald Driver's rookie year.
5. The fact that we are a draft and DEVELOP team.
6. The fact that Davis was going to take a full year to get an NFL standard physique. 
7. And finally, the fact that some of the best receivers playing right now were late round picks who showed nothing to next to nothing their rookie years.

I just laugh at everybody who suggests we cut Davis.  Or Janis for that matter.  We're not cutting them. 

I don't literally laugh, I literally shake my head in frustration at the lack of consideration.  All of you calling for us to cut Davis right now would have been calling for the exact same thing if we had drafted Antonio Brown.  Because, after all, Antonio Brown was a sixth round pick who had 16 catches for 167 yards and zero touchdowns as a rookie.  Cut him. 

We drafted Trevor Davis for a very real reason, and we're not cutting him, and if you think we are, I've got a lot of things to sell you, but hopefully buy from you because you seem much more likely to sell something with future value than you are to buy anything. 

[CWood21]

8 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

We drafted Trevor Davis for a very real reason, and we're not cutting him, and if you think we are, I've got a lot of things to sell you, but hopefully buy from you because you seem much more likely to sell something with future value than you are to buy anything. 

I'd agree with that first part, the second part not so much.  Last year, Green Bay was 6th in TO differential.  The year before they were 10th and in 2014 they were 1st.  Giving away free possessions isn't a recipe for success, so why he offers a ton of upside as a returner he's just not worth it if he's giving away free possessions for the other team.

[MacReady]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I'd agree with that first part, the second part not so much.  Last year, Green Bay was 6th in TO differential.  The year before they were 10th and in 2014 they were 1st.  Giving away free possessions isn't a recipe for success, so why he offers a ton of upside as a returner he's just not worth it if he's giving away free possessions for the other team.

Somebody already pointed it out before.  Cobb fumbled a bit returning punts as well.  It's not like two instances of Davis doing it means he's going to forever be incapable of doing it. 

The only reason people want Yancey or Dupre over Davis/Janis is because they want immediate returns.  They expect if a player hasn't shown anything their first year, they won't ever be able to show anything.  And it's just really shortsighted considering how we operate.

Rodgers, Nelson, Bakhtiari, Perry, Clinton-Dix (remember how people freaked out thinking he'd never be able to tackle after his rookie year), House, Taylor, Ripkowski, Daniels.  Think of their first years as Packers. 

Rodgers had a crappy game in garbage time against the Ravens, bust.
Nelson had 6 touchdowns in his first three years.
Bakhtiari was never going to be an elite left tackle, and people here literally wanted us to let him go.  LITERALLY. 
Perry was a bust. 
Clinton-Dix couldn't tackle.
Nobody complained when we let House go.
People literally never expected Taylor to be a serviceable backup.
Ripkowski showed nothing.
Daniels was expected to be a "rotational guy."

This team and this team over the past 20 years has been LOADED with players nobody expected to be anything in their first year turn into excellent players for us in later years, and yet people expect Davis to never be able to return punts, and they're suggesting he's "that much easier to cut." 

It's shameful really to neglect all of the dozens of players from Driver to the ones I just listed currently on our team to everybody else in Thompson's time here and even before. 

I'm not making this up either.  We have Nelson, Cobb, Adams as locks.  We're keeping at least six receivers.  The only way Davis and Janis get cut is if Yancey or Dupre take one of their spots, and people are literally hoping for or calling for Janis/Davis to get cut because they want that immediate rookie year return, and if it doesn't happen in the rookie year it will never happen.

Meanwhile, I'm over here remembering Nelson's and Driver's humble, quiet beginnings and also looking at the beginnings of the likes of the Antonio Browns and realizing that you can't just go giving up on players because they didn't show anything their rookie years when the history of the NFL and the history of this team and the history of the past decade is loaded with examples of players going one, two, three or four years without doing anything only to turn into incredible players in this league.

 

[CWood21]

Just now, HorizontoZenith said:

Somebody already pointed it out before.  Cobb fumbled a bit returning punts as well.  It's not like two instances of Davis doing it means he's going to forever be incapable of doing it. 

They also invested a 2nd round pick into Cobb...and they invested a 5th round pick into Trevor Davis.  At the end of the day, later round picks have to make their initial impact on ST and the upside isn't worth the risk with regards to Davis.  I'm not writing him off, but it's an uphill battle for him.

 

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

The only reason people want Yancey or Dupre over Davis/Janis is because they want immediate returns.  They expect if a player hasn't shown anything their first year, they won't ever be able to show anything.  And it's just really shortsighted considering how we operate.

I'm not even sure it's necessarily that.  We're talking about a rookie versus a 2nd player.  There's less emotional ties to a recent draft pick than there is about players who have been in the system for over a year.  Trevor Davis has had a year in the scheme, and he really hasn't improved much as a receiver.  If you give Yancey/Dupre a year in the system, how much do they improve?  It's a risk vs. reward argument.

[MacReady]

Just now, CWood21 said:

They also invested a 2nd round pick into Cobb...and they invested a 5th round pick into Trevor Davis.  At the end of the day, later round picks have to make their initial impact on ST and the upside isn't worth the risk with regards to Davis.  I'm not writing him off, but it's an uphill battle for him.

I'm not even sure it's necessarily that.  We're talking about a rookie versus a 2nd player.  There's less emotional ties to a recent draft pick than there is about players who have been in the system for over a year.  Trevor Davis has had a year in the scheme, and he really hasn't improved much as a receiver.  If you give Yancey/Dupre a year in the system, how much do they improve?  It's a risk vs. reward argument.

Cobb was a second round pick, but Cobb never had as much pure speed as Davis either.

Don't know how you can say that when he's been getting good reviews all offseason and he hasn't played in an actual game yet. 

I guess this will just have to be another one of those times where my gut and sound logic will have to be brought up to prove that morons like me are right more often than people who know more. 

[vegas492]

10 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said:

 

 

16 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

You neglect a few things:

1. Longest pass interference penalty (66 yards) of the last 30 years in the NFL, and Davis was responsible for drawing it on a play he got open on.
2. The best threat to return a punt we've had since long before Randall Cobb.
3. The fastest receiver we've had since God knows when.
4. The fact that he had exactly 7 less yards and the exact number of receptions and touchdowns as Donald Driver's rookie year.
5. The fact that we are a draft and DEVELOP team.
6. The fact that Davis was going to take a full year to get an NFL standard physique. 
7. And finally, the fact that some of the best receivers playing right now were late round picks who showed nothing to next to nothing their rookie years.

I just laugh at everybody who suggests we cut Davis.  Or Janis for that matter.  We're not cutting them. 

I don't literally laugh, I literally shake my head in frustration at the lack of consideration.  All of you calling for us to cut Davis right now would have been calling for the exact same thing if we had drafted Antonio Brown.  Because, after all, Antonio Brown was a sixth round pick who had 16 catches for 167 yards and zero touchdowns as a rookie.  Cut him. 

We drafted Trevor Davis for a very real reason, and we're not cutting him, and if you think we are, I've got a lot of things to sell you, but hopefully buy from you because you seem much more likely to sell something with future value than you are to buy anything. 

Cool thing about Davis....he plays just as fast, if not faster, than he timed.

Some guys don't play to that speed, but he sure does.

I also liked his sideline route from the other night.  His footwork on the comeback route was awesome.  He looked explosive doing down the field and in working back to the ball.  Great hands on the catch.  It was a very professional route.

About the only reason to cut him is if you believe more in the rookies and undrafted WRs.  And I'm not sure I do.  I want Dupree and Clark on the roster, but preferably on the practice squad.  Yancey I could care less about.  I think McCaffrey makes the club.

[BlondeonBlonde]

Can't believe there's still people who think Allison isn't making this team. Guy continues to impress and has a good rapport with Rodgers. He's our WR4 for the foreseeable future, and if Cobb continues to disappoint, I wouldn't be surprised to see him split reps with him. 
 

 

 

[MacReady]

Just now, BlondeonBlonde said:

Can't believe there's still people who think Allison isn't making this team. Guy continues to impress and has a good rapport with Rodgers. He's our WR4 for the foreseeable future, and if Cobb continues to disappoint, I wouldn't be surprised to see him split reps with him.

Yeah, after his suspension though. 

[Norm]

49 minutes ago, BlondeonBlonde said:

Can't believe there's still people who think Allison isn't making this team. Guy continues to impress and has a good rapport with Rodgers. He's our WR4 for the foreseeable future, and if Cobb continues to disappoint, I wouldn't be surprised to see him split reps with him. 
 

 

 

I changed my stance on that. They're playing him like he's a lock it seems.. 

[Norm]

Did we have 7 WRs on the roster opening day or 6? My brain doesn't work anymore.

[skibrett15]

Davis is my pick for breakout guy.  It will probably take an injury to get there though.

 

Fortunately, I think the top 3 are flexible enough to where one injury is gonna open up playing time for 2-3 guys, not just one guy.  And it'll be the guy who makes plays in that situation who starts to see more time and more balls.

 

i.e. initially we might see Allison in the slot getting some reps, but we'll also see Jordy in the slot and more outside reps, or adams in the slot and more outside reps.  Adams is our best sideline receiver at this point, and Davis could do really well to give the other guys some space to work underneath him.  I like Davis as the only guy on the roster who I think could actually be a star.  His hands aren't 8/10 or better, but neither are Adams and they are better than Janis.  I like everything else about his game.

2 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Did we have 7 WRs on the roster opening day or 6? My brain doesn't work anymore.

7.  Janis, Davis, Jordy, Adams, Cobb, Abbro, Montgomery