Norm Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: What's the qualification of the number? Is that separation at the catch, within X yards of the LOS, what? I don't care how much separation Jordy has when he catches the ball, we're sitting here saying how good Jordy is at finding soft spots in the zone, no .... Sherlock he's going to have some yards of cushion when he makes the catch. That only makes sense. Know where he didn't have separation? At the top of the route where he's intended to win the route. FFS am I the only one who watches these games and can trust what they see without trying to find some number that validates my wrong viewpoint? I didn't need the numbers to know he wasn't the slowest POS on Earth like you make it sound. I've been saying it all along. Then there was the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: No ******* way...BUT HE'Z SO SLOOOOO, KANT GET SAPARASION Excellent post from PackerRaymond above You have to be a little careful with some of the PFF stats: Average Separation (SEP) "The distance (in yards) measured between a WR/TE and the nearest defender at the time of catch or incompletion " So what happens on a bubble screen ? The defender is 5 yards off the LOS at the snap and 5 yards away from the WR. The WR didn't "gain" any separation, but is he credited for it just the same ? That's kind of important. How do you account for a QB who "throws them open" ? Who gets credit for that separation ? What if the defense is shading their safeties toward Adams and leaving a CB alone on Jordy ? In that scenario, the CB leaves a slightly larger cushion, does that inflate the separation numbers ? That's why these front offices watch tape and don't just scout boxscores, even PFF box scores. Season-long averages can be misleading, especially in older players like Nelson The key component here is: How are those older legs performing in December and January ? The Packers answered that question emphatically in March when they released him instead of re-negotiating with him. Jordy will probably have another good September/October. But then when December rolls around and those old legs fade...you'd be stuck. GB front office needs to develop the young WRs and give them critical reps - because they can actually help in December-February and into next season Darn shame, but that's how successful NFL front offices have to think in a cap and roster constrained world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 You guys aren't worth arguing with. Holy crap I said a 33 year old with an ACL tear late in his career is showing signs of his age. What a scandalous opinion. I followed that up by saying a guy who just signed a 15m per year deal and was the 45th ranked player in the league by his peers was better than him. Jordy official hit Favre status here, if you bring up facts about the natural regression any NFL player goes through, you thinks he's a POS. Yet we all can talk about 28 year old Randall Cobb like he's 40 and that's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaegybomb Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 You might be the most reductive baby on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: You guys aren't worth arguing with. Holy crap I said a 33 year old with an ACL tear late in his career is showing signs of his age. What a scandalous opinion. I followed that up by saying a guy who just signed a 15m per year deal and was the 45th ranked player in the league by his peers was better than him. Jordy official hit Favre status here, if you bring up facts about the natural regression any NFL player goes through, you thinks he's a POS. Yet we all can talk about 28 year old Randall Cobb like he's 40 and that's OK. You haven't been impartial about Jordy, if that's what you're trying to say. You even spent days arguing he wouldn't take a paycut and we had to use his full salary to prove he needed to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: You haven't been impartial about Jordy, if that's what you're trying to say. You even spent days arguing he wouldn't take a paycut and we had to use his full salary to prove he needed to go. He said himself he was willing to take a pay cut, why would I say to the contrary? People said it was disrespectful to offer him a little more than the vet min, I disagreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: He said himself he was willing to take a pay cut, why would I say to the contrary? People said it was disrespectful to offer him a little more than the vet min, I disagreed. You were just arguing with someone the other day that only the salary on the books was what we could use, unless I dreamed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jaegybomb said: You might be the most reductive baby on these forums. Maybe so, but I'm tall, so at least I can jump high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said: You were just arguing with someone the other day that only the salary on the books was what we could use, unless I dreamed that Yes, Jordy was cut to save 10m, we have Graham and the books with Wilk for 10m. What am I saying wrong there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Jordy Nelson is on the "back nine" of his career as an NFL WR. He was not worth the 2018 salary he was signed for with GB. The GB front office decided to move on from Nelson and get younger at the position. For many fans, that sucks. At some point, all NFL players will have a physical and performance decline. It will happen to every GB player at some point regardless of their stature and pedigree as a player. I fully expect Nelson to have some highlight moments in the 2018 season, but the move has been made and moving on is necessary for the organization and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: Yes, Jordy was cut to save 10m, we have Graham and the books with Wilk for 10m. What am I saying wrong there? Fair enough but it seemed like whoever you were talking to was saying we could have gotten Nelson down to like 5ish and still done those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, squire12 said: He was not worth the 2018 salary he was signed for with GB. Nobody is arguing to the contrary of this so we can stop saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, NormSizedMidget said: Fair enough but it seemed like whoever you were talking to was saying we could have gotten Nelson down to like 5ish and still done those. No he said that Burnett equaled Graham + Wilk, which I said makes no sense because we didn't cut Burnett and he had no salary on our books. Until Rodgers deal is done no one can say who we can or can't afford this off-season. Gute could eat a good chunk this off-season or he could decide to push it off and carry a lot over. No sense talking about what we could or couldn't do until we see what they decide there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: No he said that Burnett equaled Graham + Wilk, which I said makes no sense because we didn't cut Burnett and he had no salary on our books. Until Rodgers deal is done no one can say who we can or can't afford this off-season. Gute could eat a good chunk this off-season or he could decide to push it off and carry a lot over. No sense talking about what we could or couldn't do until we see what they decide there. Or they could have kept him for around 5 and then knew how they needed to structure rodgers deal... I hope I'm wrong but I think this is gonna be a mistake, not a season destroyer or anything but not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: 4 minutes ago, squire12 said: He was not worth the 2018 salary he was signed for with GB. Nobody is arguing to the contrary of this so we can stop saying it. So what is all the arguing about? Nelson was not the player in the last 1/2+ of the season vs earlier in his career. That seems like a decline to me and what I was able to watch of his play. The GB staff knows how he looks in practice and how he is moving in drills etc. I would not find it hard to believe that they were seeing a more sharp decline vs a slow decline. The rate of player decline (performance or physical ability) can be slow and steady OR fast and sudden. It can come in all shapes and sizes. Maybe Nelson will have an easier time playing in the nicer weather of Cali vs GB in the November/December months of the season. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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